Waste pipe (40mm) on Boundary wall - is this allowed?

[jaykroy83]

Hi,

I am new to this forum and would highly appreciate if someone could provide a guidance pls.

Ours is a semi detached property with bungalow on the other side. The previous owner of our property did a 1st floor side and rear extension around 2015. The old bathroom was with saniflo system in the middle of the extended part of the property.

We have now re-positioned the bathroom towards the back facing the garden, swapping with the other small room without any structural change. Our builder suggested that the shower and wash basin waste pipe (40mm) through the boundary wall is ideal solution and within our rights as the boundary wall foundation extends to around 150mm underneath and the pipes are clipped all the way to the back of the property joining to our drain, so we went ahead with the plan.

Our neighbor is now complaining that we shouldn't have put the pipe on the wall as its their airspace to use and requesting us to remove the pipes completely. In addition they have also stated that they are exploring legal channels with solicitors / surveyors to further their claim.

Can someone pls advise here if they have any legal ground to raise objection in this scenario.

Attaching few pics for reference purpose.

Many thanks
J Roy

 

[SimonG]

What did building control say?

 

[jaykroy83]

What did building control say?

Hey Simon, thanks for replying

As there were no structural changes done and it was merely a relocation of bathroom, our builder advised building reg signoff wasn't mandatory in this case.

Just to add, on our neighbor's request a Building control rep did come around and was happy with the overall fire safety and ventilation requirement etc and suggested we get the regularisation certificate (optional) at any time when we want to and also stated they cannot opine on the legality of the pipework on the boundary wall as they are not the concerned authority.

Is there any guidance i can get on the legal side of this bone of contention, i.e waste pipe on the boundary wall and right of airspace?

Many thanks

J Roy

 

[SimonG]

Relocation of sanitaryware is notifiable.

So that's a party wall? Is there a party wall agreement?

 

[jaykroy83]

Relocation of sanitaryware is notifiable.

So that's a party wall? Is there a party wall agreement?

Am I correct in saying getting the 'regularisation certificate' from Building control adresses the first point in some way?

with regards to the Party wall, there is no such agreement in place as the adjoining property is a bungalow and the land next to our Boundary wall is the side entry to their garden from their driveway.

Many thanks
J Roy

 

[Chuck]

You took your builder's legal advice and have provoked your neighbours into threatening legal action. Now you're asking some plumbers for more legal advice? Okay, I'll bite.

You really need to see a solicitor to discuss your options. Exactly where the boundary is going to be critical and you may need a chartered surveyor to establish whether your extension and/or the pipework encroaches.

Your neighbour has probably been quietly seething for years about your extension being built too close to the boundary and your new pipework might be the last straw for them. Now you've poked the bear let's hope that the foundations to your extension are entirely on your side or you may end up having to move them.

IME, boundary disputes are a rich man's hobby and you really want to avoid this getting anywhere near a court. As lawyers are fond of saying, a bad settlement is better than a good case.

 

[gpbeck]

If the main run was a couple of feet higher it could run above your flat roof. Rest of piping could have been internal and boxed in. Somebody took an ‘easy’ option. But perhaps could still be done?

 

[oz-plumber]

I don't think you have a chance!

If something goes wrong with the drain, you will / may have to access the neighbours property to fix the problem.

If the neighbours want to build a wall next to yours, they will have to accommodate your plumbing.

Plus - it does not look good either

 

[snowhead]

There's a few possible outcomes and along the way there will be various expert opinions, some of which will differ depending on which side they represent.
But if it goes to Court then it would come down to "What a Reasonable Person would expect of or in a situation".
And the same logic could be applied without going to Court.

To me a Reasonable Person would expect that in the absence of plans showing the exact location of the boundary then the true boundary would put the foundations of that wall on the house side of the boundary, meaning the neighbour has no claim to the airspace above the foundation.

An exception to the above would be if there was previously another building on the bungalow side that used the wall, making it a Party wall and the claim to it being a Party wall was never released by the owner of the neighbouring land with the bungalow on.

 

[Ric2013]

Vaguely agree with Snowhead, except I'm fairly sure that it is quite common for footings to encroach on neighbouring land with granted or assumed permission of the neighbour to which there isn't, after many years, much chance to back out of (it would be unconscionable to not allow adverse possession of the footing of a house that encroaches on a neighbouring plot, but that doesn't mean the possession necessarily goes straight up and down).

If you had had the neighbours' permission for the pipework there wouldn't have been a problem. As Bob Hoskins used to say, it's good to talk and sometimes the simplest way is to agree a boundary when there is no documentary evidence.

Now they are being arsey (and they are being arsey - no need to threaten court action until amicable routes have been explored and have failed, behaviour, incidentally, which is unlikely to win a judge's sympathy - so try to diffuse this if you can and ask for mercy while you explore the issure of whether your builder mislead you regarding a question that might be better put to a conveyancing solicitor), the question becomes to whom the land belongs.

If there isn't a formal boundary agreement, then Land Registry won't know, although if there are any OLD conveyances of the land that have a copy filed with HMLR, you will be able to order these IN PAPER COPY ONLY AS THEY ARE NOT AVAILABLE TO DOWNLOAD and they may help. Any modern title plan drawing will almost certainly be based on the OS mapping and will therefore show the 'general boundary' to be at the wall as that is a visible feature, but the legal boundary may be 6' either way for all you know. In the absence of other evidence I'd suggest that either the boundary is the outside face of the wall or the footings as Snowhead has suggested, but it may come down to professional interpretation... which may be expensive.

Obviously, if they take you to court and you can prove them wrong, have tried to show them that and they go ahead anyway, then that is up to them.