Water leakage very severe

[Deleted member 97605]

Hi all, I need some advice from people here to help me repair a serious leak and water damage. I have a well that supplies a water tank, this then seems to supply other tanks alongside this one for other water outlets. It looks like one tank fills the hot water tank, down below, another one runs the cold taps to taps in the house.
The central heating system has a hot open end pipe going into what I will call an overflow for now, into one of the holding tanks.
I am losing about a gallon of water a day right now, coming through the kitchen roof and obviously ruining the ceiling and joists which will have to be fixed afterwards but not major as the water leakage is more serious.
It happens when I turn on my central heating system to use the oil boiler to heat all the rads in the house.
It is like the hot water is returning to this outlet pipe into one of the tanks and is over-flowing the tank.
I have to strip away a lot of stuff to get to all the tanks as it appears the plastic tanks were put in a lot of years back, but all seem good condition and I cannot see any problems with joins or plumbing together of them so far.
I tried turning down the water pump pressure from the boiler for the rads by one notch, this has slowed the amount of water spilling over, so now I am down to about 1/2 gallon per 24 hours, but still no use.

I turn off the heating system, and no water leaks, so somehow the heating system pump is allowing water to flow back into a tank and over-flow it, does this sound like what is happening? I still have to get to the last tank as there are 4 in total, and three so far are all tight and no leaks,

I can see wetness on the 4th one at the bottom level, behind the rafter/joist but getting to it is severe and may involve me having to remove the other three to get access which is not going to be fun. I have started stripping away all the insulation and coverings to get access.
I can take images of the tanks and set-up if this will make it easier for someone to offer me help?

 

[Best]

Has any recent work been carried out on the heating? Like new circulating pumps, zone valves or any pipe alterations?
Some systems are designed wrong and need a decent heating engineer to take a look at it all.
But you might have a blocked pipe.
The heating supply tank (feed & expansion tank) should only have a small amount of water in it to allow for it to expand. The overflow pipe should be capable of taking enough water away, so something is wrong with that also

 

[Deleted member 97605]

Has any recent work been carried out on the heating? Like new circulating pumps, zone valves or any pipe alterations?
Some systems are designed wrong and need a decent heating engineer to take a look at it all.
But you might have a blocked pipe.
The heating supply tank (feed & expansion tank) should only have a small amount of water in it to allow for it to expand. The overflow pipe should be capable of taking enough water away, so something is wrong with that also

I am actually working right now to see what is happening. The day before I moved in a boiler engineer came in, serviced the boiler and re-charged the system as no water was reaching the upstairs rads and I could not bleed them as only air. I am actually annoyed now as I have managed to get to see more of the tank at the rear of these tanks, and I can see a soaken wet tank at the bottom, which means there is a pipe feeding this tank to the other tank and it has given way. If you saw the crawl space I have you would not belive it. I am having to use feel to get to it and am still trying to find a way to get to it with-out removing the other tanks.
The water is not coming over the tank lid like I thought, which means the part I cannot get to is where the water is pouring out it seems.
Hence I think the lower down connection that I cannot see or get to is the culprit.

 

[Deleted member 97605]

Has any recent work been carried out on the heating? Like new circulating pumps, zone valves or any pipe alterations?
Some systems are designed wrong and need a decent heating engineer to take a look at it all.
But you might have a blocked pipe.
The heating supply tank (feed & expansion tank) should only have a small amount of water in it to allow for it to expand. The overflow pipe should be capable of taking enough water away, so something is wrong with that also

I will make this easier for all. I will take images of the entire set-up, this then lets you see what I have in front of me this end and it will hopefully make it easier for help. All I know so far, is when I turn off the central heating, the water stops pouring through the ceiling, so something with the pressure of the heating is causing an overflow, but the tank it flows into is almost empty as I can now see only the top. I am still trying to get to the tank bottom as it seems to be soaken down below, leading me to think a pipe has come adrift or lost the sealing capacity of said pipe when I finally get to it. This makes me believe the overflow or expansion for the heating is not filling up the tank, so it is not pouring out through my ceiling. I pray it is one single pipe causing this leak. or a split in expansion tank, where the water level drops enough not to leak any more.

 

[Chalked]

Sounds like a split coil on the cylinder

 

[Deleted member 97605]

I am slowly getting to the tanks up in this little loft. I have removed all the wooden panels, jackets and insulation, but as you can see the leak is what appears to be in a connecting pipe, but I have to work my way in from the back and above to get any nearer. I poked the camera through but no space for even my head down there.
I am making a little wooden walkway above and behind the tanks as this is the only way I can get near the tank that is leaking. the water damage is more severe than I thought as the walls here are all two feet thick solid welsh stone and slate, so it has gone down the other side and now penetrated behind the tiles in my bathroom, again, will fix when water leak is sorted. The images will help, but I now need to only get on top of these units to finally see the pipe that appears to be doing all this damage, or at least let you all see what is wrong.

 

[Best]

All a bit strange to me.
Firstly, you have a sealed heating system, so if the water leak was coming from the heating then the pressure would drop to zero on the gauge at red vessel. Do have that filling loop tested though to see that it is not passing water when valve supposed to be off and also have the pressure relief valve at vessel checked for operation. I assume the boiler service engineer checked and recharged the air in the red vessel?
The tanks in your photos look very poorly done and should have proper fully supported base and vent pipe should rise much higher above top of tank before bending down.
For testing for where leak is, use a decent sized telescopic mirror and strong torch to view leak.

 

[Deleted member 97605]

I assume the boiler service engineer checked and recharged the air in the red vessel?
The tanks in your photos look very poorly done and should have proper fully supported base and vent pipe should rise much higher above top of tank before bending down.
For testing for where leak is, use a decent sized telescopic mirror and strong torch to view leak.

I have no option but to gain full access now as the leaking tank is the one at the rear and in the smallest space.

The red tank on the boiler was recharged as this is how the water was able to get to the upstairs radiators. The boiler was looked at, other than this, I can say no more on what kind of service was actually carried out.
Later today, I will get a full on view of all tanks as I have to take in a bigger ladder to now get further into loft so I can get my body above the tanks. Every rad has been fitted to only internal walls with the pipes just pushed through each room from centre room, instead of chasing pipes around walls to mount them on external walls and under windows.

I have turned off the main water now and shut down the heating system, as this is too dangerous to keep running now until I fix it as too many electric sockets are under this entire wall and ceiling for this amount of water to be only inches away from it.

 

[Deleted member 97605]

I have finally striped away the set-up and now you can see what I have in front of me this end. The last tank, No.5 is the one with a serious leak as I can now see. Access is still tight but it has to be fixed. How do I drain the water in all the tanks? I need to turn off water at mains which is done. do I then simply scoop then out till empty?
The tank number 5 has two pipes also coming out, as in where will the water go in these or do I have to fix the tank in place without removing these?

I also have to question why so many little tanks connected to each other, and still I have almost zero water pressure at the cold taps.

 

[Chester]

Sorry to say but thats a mess. depending what no 5 feeds just drain enough out to work on it.

Personally i would look at changing that lot altogether and properly supporting it.

 

[Harvest Fields]

Bet they couldn’t get a bigger tank through the hatch.

 

[Deleted member 97605]

Sorry to say but thats a mess. depending what no 5 feeds just drain enough out to work on it.

Personally i would look at changing that lot altogether and properly supporting it.

I took the hard route and removed every one bar the HW tank feed and overflow.
Every single connection has perished fibre type washers that are now all seeping at all connections.
At present no water is now running as I emptied it all. I never touched the rads or boiler outlets, only the entire mess of butts connected together in this crawl space.
The mess is dodgy, but I notice the main tanks sit on the two foot thick wall, so I have good support, just need to re-do it and board it out a bit.

 

[Deleted member 97605]

Bet they couldn’t get a bigger tank through the hatch.

I am having to stretch and breath in to get through the hole into the area so it took some doing emptying them all and disconnecting them until I got to the back one which is the leaking one. They still have to be squeezed through the hatch to get them out as I have about a 1cm of silt/sand on the bottom of them all, so will clean them out of the loft space.

 

[Deleted member 97605]

I would need instant advice to alter anything as I only have tomorrow to get materials. The boarding out is nothing and done no matter what I do.
I see now how it works. Tank 1-2-3-4 all store water that feeds tank 5 only. Tank 1 and two are about 1 inch higher in the line than the end number 5 tank. Although i'll redo it all in a single height, as I think the height difference is maybe just poor work.
Tank 5 feeds the HW cylinder and boiler, one outlet will be cold to water tank, the other to the boiler and the breather with the bend for the HW tank expansion. the actual cold taps are NOT run from these tanks, and now I know why I have no water pressure at any cold water tap.

 

[Harvest Fields]

Make a bigger hole in the ceiling and fit the correct size tank mate if it’s possible to do and tank 5 should either be feeding heating The 4 bolted together will do the hot water. Please forgive any errors as not read all above
posts.

 

[Deleted member 97605]

Make a bigger hole in the ceiling and fit the correct size tank mate if it’s possible to do and tank 5 should either be feeding heating The 4 bolted together will do the hot water. Please forgive any errors as not read all above
posts.

limited to size as a truss would have to be physically cut and the actual roof is to dangerous to touch, even to do this as I am not re-roofing this time of year, but come the better weather I will sort this out properly as I need right now to simply put this all back together and make a better plan of attack and repair.
I have shut down my house so need it as soon as hardware or DIY stores open today to get me just the gaskets/seals for these fittings in the tanks as xmas is on top of me and I need water and heating. Two days with-out is enough this end.

 

[Deleted member 97605]

Thanks all, I will return to this in better weather as I am in the Cambrian mountains so really need water and heating right now. I am only going to fix the leaks/seals just now and wait till better weather. Remember also I am severely disabled and getting up a ladder takes me about 8-10 mins of slight pain and shear awkwardness, where you all here maybe get up it in about 10 seconds. This entire job should take not much time, but it has taken me about an hour per unit to simply remove the connecting pipes. Hence It has taken me nearly two days non-stop, all night and day to get to this stage of finally getting to the leaking pipe
So thank-you all as I will finish this thread just now and simply repair the leaking pipes.

 

[Harvest Fields]

Merry Christmas.

 

[Deleted member 97605]

Tried a couple of shops but time was against me as all trades stopped yesterday.
Used wick:es as last chance saloon but never got anything needed in such a basic ask of water tank pipes and connectors.

nothing in their store for me, so had to simply grab some big rubber washers. I will use these to seal the pipes to the tanks again and after Xmas, I will get round to fixing this botch-it and scarper job.

Start telling customers you will charge them double instantly if a hack job or idiot has attempted anything you are called out to. A square peg in a round hole is not funny and that person is a serious danger to anyone around them for life.

This is the kind of cowboy butchered fittings I am up against through this entire house. Someone has added a boiler and hot water tank and if you saw the rads on the walls you lot in here would laugh as this is the worst I have seen in my 53 years of living to date in a house in a first world country. (But they all almost work perfectly) I have two leaking as the pipes have been dragged round into bends, but you guessed it, it was bent simply by hand to 90 degrees, so a nice kink in the copper piping, and this is at every rad which have been fitted through-out with rolls of copper brake piping for cars, which in a way is genius, but the mess and poor work makes it look worse than it actually is.
Merry Xmas everyone and will come back when I get round to sorting out this water storage tank mess.

The images show the rubber washers I got which will sort out the leak until I can do more on the whole set-up. The water will not be tainted with this rubber as this is all hot water and not drinking water.