Water pouring out cold tap, washers fine but bottom of tap head gear loose

[Ruth Innes]

Hello,
Last night my cold tap would not stop, it was pouring out and the tap was just going around and round.
I switched off the water at the stopcock and opened the tap up to see if the washers were gone. The washers seem perfectly smooth and the tap is only about two years old, I tried to check the head tap gear, no matter what I do the spindle goes round and round and won't stop. I tried taking it out and then, tightening it and replacing it, but when I tighten the tap I can hear it click inside and the bottom part of the tap head gear seems to fall out.
Everytime I turn the spindle to put to back together, in order to try and stop the water flow I have to turn it, but the bottom falls out again.

If I push the tap handle, into the unit the waterflow will stop, but no matter what I tighten the water comes pouring out as soon as I switch my mains back on.

I took the part to Screwfix and Grahams today, but they didn't have any replacements. With it being Easter I'm stuck for a plumber and would really like to try this myself as I'm sure it only needs some muscle!

Thanks,
Ruth

 

[ShaunCorbs]

new cartridge time

 

[Ruth Innes]

Cartidge? Sorry I am a complete novice, is the "cartidge" a new replacement part of what I post the picture of?

 

[Aire]

Needs a new washer and re assembling or a set of these
https://www.NoLinkingToThis/p/flomasta-threaded-tap-glands-24mm-x-2-pack/7960f

 

[Aire]

Also, when you take the tap apart, just run your finger inside the tap body and make sure the tap seating is smooth. If the body of the tap has failed, you will need a new tap

 

[Welder]

Hello,
Last night my cold tap would not stop, it was pouring out and the tap was just going around and round.
I switched off the water at the stopcock and opened the tap up to see if the washers were gone. The washers seem perfectly smooth and the tap is only about two years old, I tried to check the head tap gear, no matter what I do the spindle goes round and round and won't stop. I tried taking it out and then, tightening it and replacing it, but when I tighten the tap I can hear it click inside and the bottom part of the tap head gear seems to fall out.
Everytime I turn the spindle to put to back together, in order to try and stop the water flow I have to turn it, but the bottom falls out again.

If I push the tap handle, into the unit the waterflow will stop, but no matter what I tighten the water comes pouring out as soon as I switch my mains back on.

I took the part to Screwfix and Grahams today, but they didn't have any replacements. With it being Easter I'm stuck for a plumber and would really like to try this myself as I'm sure it only needs some muscle!

Thanks,
Ruth

View attachment 38259

Much as it should be simple, you have a pair of taps where the maker could not have gone cheaper on the headworks.

What's happening is that tolerences in the headworks are so tight, they simply cannot accommodate normal wear & tear. We see it every day.

If you wish to keep the taps, you will need to find someone who can measure its seat depth and custom make you some 1/4 turn versions or seek out new traditional headworks but of a range capable of normal use accommodating normal wear & tear. If you have a combi boiler or better than new 1/4 turns are by far & away your best bet.

Try asking your local TapMedic kit user to make you some.

 

[Aire]

Much as it should be simple, you have a pair of taps where the maker could not have gone cheaper on the headworks.

What's happening is that tolerences in the headworks are so tight, they simply cannot accommodate normal wear & tear. We see it every day.

If you wish to keep the taps, you will need to find someone who can measure its seat depth and custom make you some 1/4 turn versions or seek out new traditional headworks but of a range capable of normal use accommodating normal wear & tear. If you have a combi boiler or better than new 1/4 turns are by far & away your best bet.

Try asking your local TapMedic kit user to make you some.

No need to disagree with me just to promote your product. While the best option would be to change from a threaded cartridge to a 1/4 turn cartridge, providing the tap is sound, a new washer would do the trick. It may only last a year or 2 before it's required again but things just simply aren't built to last anymore. For all we know the tap op is trying to fix may have only cost £30 and would be better off replacing it all instead of wasting money servicing it.

 

[Welder]

No need to disagree with me just to promote your product. While the best option would be to change from a threaded cartridge to a 1/4 turn cartridge, providing the tap is sound, a new washer would do the trick. It may only last a year or 2 before it's required again but things just simply aren't built to last anymore. For all we know the tap op is trying to fix may have only cost £30 and would be better off replacing it all instead of wasting money servicing it.

Craig I disagreed for one reason and one reason only. That you advised the OP to do something that is extremely unlikely to be of benefit. Do you really think this post is going to change my fortunes?

As you are aware, I happen to do this stuff all day and every darn day and if required could go into the minutiae of exactly where they could rebuild using a new brass blank to carry on forever. Happy to do that with you on a DM.

Regarding the price of the taps, we already know they are cheaply made regardless of price charged. Changing taps does nothing but increase the OP's costs and postpone the problem for another period. In addition it also wastes shed loads of raw materials, energy etc shipping them halfway across the globe.

The reality of swapping for decent cartridges is that they will remain repairable for as long as the OP wishes to keep them this means their long term costs are reduced, they waste less time off cos they can be done quickly and do something for this little blue ball of ours we call home.

Sorry if you took umbrage at my 'disagree' but none of us are correct all of the time. We are all big boys and girls on here and can normally take it. God knows how many times Ive said 'Sorry' when I've screwed up?

Sure Harvest will count 'em for me

 

[Best]

I am thinking perhaps that cartridge has not broken apart, but actually just unscrewed inside.
If tap works is ever turned off too tight (too many turns) it can come apart.

Only way to connect together is to remove the circlip from other end of spindle and push that spindle down and out.
Then screw that into that bottom piece that you said had fallen out and just push the completed part into the brass body and put circlip back into groove in spindle.
Use some silicone grease suitable for drinking water on all the inner parts

 

[Welder]

You are quite correct but you dont have to worry about taking the spindle out because its not a rising spindle. It uses a reverse thread to move the jumper & just screws in.
However, the whole thing isnt deep enough so wont seal againt the seat properly. Hence my comment.

 

[Aire]

Craig I disagreed for one reason and one reason only. That you advised the OP to do something that is extremely unlikely to be of benefit. Do you really think this post is going to change my fortunes?

As you are aware, I happen to do this stuff all day and every darn day and if required could go into the minutiae of exactly where they could rebuild using a new brass blank to carry on forever. Happy to do that with you on a DM.

Regarding the price of the taps, we already know they are cheaply made regardless of price charged. Changing taps does nothing but increase the OP's costs and postpone the problem for another period. In addition it also wastes shed loads of raw materials, energy etc shipping them halfway across the globe.

The reality of swapping for decent cartridges is that they will remain repairable for as long as the OP wishes to keep them this means their long term costs are reduced, they waste less time off cos they can be done quickly and do something for this little blue ball of ours we call home.

Sorry if you took umbrage at my 'disagree' but none of us are correct all of the time. We are all big boys and girls on here and can normally take it. God knows how many times Ive said 'Sorry' when I've screwed up?

Sure Harvest will count 'em for me

Ok sorry for the promoting your product comment, it wasn't really necessary. However, advising to change the washer and reassemble the spindle wasn't wrong advice, I may not have fixed as many taps as you but I have repaired plenty in the same way best details above, and all have worked perfectly fine.

And yes we are all big boys and I like you, will always hold my hand up and admit when I'm wrong. Your tap medic solution is another option yes and will probably outlast a repair of the washer, but changing the washer is also a simple and effective repair as it has been for many many years.

 

[JCplumb]

As a third(?) option : tap reviver kits have some brass extensions in them and longer screws, sounds like the washer just needs to be closer to the seat and as long as the tap head fits onto the splines of a cart from a reviver kit then that's the way I'd go. The hot (or cold) side will probably be doing the same thing soon so would be worth doing both at once.

 

[Burger]

Hi Ruth,

You certainly have been given some good options here. For the time being if water continues to pour out is there an isolation valve you can turn off in order for you to wait for a plumber or do you desperately need the tap?

Picture of an isolation valve:

 

[Ruth Innes]

Hi guys,
first of all, thank you so much for all your helpful replies and suggestions, especially with today being a holiday. I'm going to investigate all your suggestions and hopefully will find a solution!

Needs a new washer and re assembling or a set of these
https://www.NoLinkingToThis/p/flomasta-threaded-tap-glands-24mm-x-2-pack/7960f

Hi Craig. I'm hoping this will work, however on my one, the spindle is much taller? I can't see any like mine on Screwfix's website

Much as it should be simple, you have a pair of taps where the maker could not have gone cheaper on the headworks.

What's happening is that tolerences in the headworks are so tight, they simply cannot accommodate normal wear & tear. We see it every day.

If you wish to keep the taps, you will need to find someone who can measure its seat depth and custom make you some 1/4 turn versions or seek out new traditional headworks but of a range capable of normal use accommodating normal wear & tear. If you have a combi boiler or better than new 1/4 turns are by far & away your best bet.

Try asking your local TapMedic kit user to make you some.

Hello YorkshireDave, thanks for replying. Your knowledge is way, way more than mine, so I'm struggling a little bit with what you you are suggesting! I looked up TapMedic, but my nearest TapMedic user is over 100 miles away, but thanks for this suggestion.

I am thinking perhaps that cartridge has not broken apart, but actually just unscrewed inside.
If tap works is ever turned off too tight (too many turns) it can come apart.

Only way to connect together is to remove the circlip from other end of spindle and push that spindle down and out.
Then screw that into that bottom piece that you said had fallen out and just push the completed part into the brass body and put circlip back into groove in spindle.
Use some silicone grease suitable for drinking water on all the inner parts

Hi Best, I kind of think you are right here... But I'm not sure what you mean by "push that spindle down and out". Sorry, I'm a DIY beginner (certainly for taps!) and am still learning all the names of these different parts - this morning I didn't know what a spindle was!

As a third(?) option : tap reviver kits have some brass extensions in them and longer screws, sounds like the washer just needs to be closer to the seat and as long as the tap head fits onto the splines of a cart from a reviver kit then that's the way I'd go. The hot (or cold) side will probably be doing the same thing soon so would be worth doing both at once.

Hi JC. This sounds like a good idea, I had a good look for tap reviver kits, but couldn't find any that my tap handle could fit on to? It seems like I need/ currently have a long spindle, about 1 and 1/2 inches long!

Hi Ruth,

You certainly have been given some good options here. For the time being if water continues to pour out is there an isolation valve you can turn off in order for you to wait for a plumber or do you desperately need the tap?

Hi CBW, there doesn't seem to be anything like that on the pipes. There is a plastic blue "switch" that I tried turning a quater circle, but it made no difference to the flow of water. I'm managing just now with switching on and off the stopcock!

 

[Burger]

That’s fine, but you could end up with another leak from the stopcock on the spindle and gland. Easily fixed with some ptfe tape.

 

[Welder]

Hi Craig.
Any idea why I cant start a conv with you?
David

 

[Welder]

Ruth
Where are you?

 

[JCplumb]

To be fair, if the valve you have is an unusual one then the best option is the tap medic solution or new taps.
Even getting a replacement valve from the manufacturer would be a bad choice as the original valve is clearly not fit for purpose.
A photo of your valve would be helpful.

 

[Ruth Innes]

Ruth
Where are you?

Near Edinburgh

To be fair, if the valve you have is an unusual one then the best option is the tap medic solution or new taps.
Even getting a replacement valve from the manufacturer would be a bad choice as the original valve is clearly not fit for purpose.
A photo of your valve would be helpful.

 

[Welder]

There's an Approved TM installer in EH32!

Unf Ruth that image is worthless. Welcome to my world of tap valves & cartridges

If you could send that part and measure the seat depth as shown here (https://www.tapmedic.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/seat-depth-image-large.png)
I could make you a couple.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Them o rings arnt suppose to be on show spindle part needs pushing in more

 

[Aire]

Hi Craig.
Any idea why I cant start a conv with you?
David

Possibly my account settings, I've changed them now so try again

 

[Ruth Innes]

There's an Approved TM installer in EH32!

Unf Ruth that image is worthless. Welcome to my world of tap valves & cartridges

If you could send that part and measure the seat depth as shown here (https://www.tapmedic.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/seat-depth-image-large.png)
I could make you a couple.

Sorry, I'm not following what you want me to measure where exactly is this "seat"?

Them o rings arnt suppose to be on show spindle part needs pushing in more

I've pushed it down as far as it goes, the top O ring is very loose (?), could explain why it will twist too far and the bottom part simply falls out?

 

[Welder]

Sorry, I'm not following what you want me to measure where exactly is this "seat"?

Follow the link! TBH Ruth if you cannot do that then you really shouldn't be doing this at all.

 

[Burger]

Sorry, I'm not following what you want me to measure where exactly is this "seat"?



I've pushed it down as far as it goes, the top O ring is very loose (?), could explain why it will twist too far and the bottom part simply falls out?

Might also explain why water pours out. You might be able to obtain a new o-ring, but you might be clutching at straws. Follow @YorkshireDave ‘s link, it might be your best option other than replacing your taps.