Water regs legalities

[TBServices]

I went to quote a customer for fitment of a new shower and a pump.

When I got there, it turns out they have 2 showers, one of which already has a pump fitted, however after a bit of exploration, it turns out that the guy who fitted their ensuite has completely done them over.

It looks as though the majority of the cold water services throughout the house are tank fed. There were 3 tanks in the loft, one for the cold supplies for each side of the house, and one feeding the cylinder.

Unfortunately the idiot who fit the ensuite has removed the existing drops for the shower, tee'd into the other pipework and fitted the pump so it boosts the supplies to everything: 2 toilets, basin, washing machine and shower.

Here's the biggest problem though. He's run about 15m of 15mm from the cylinder cupboard for the hot supply (from a tee on the horizontal pipework) and fitted the pump on the PB in the attic. He's left the cold tank connected to the rising main, capped off the outlet (with a ballofix) and connected the pump to the rising main, which is illegal.

I explained the situation and recommended the removal of the pump, replace the tanks for a large coffin tank and install a new pump to run both showers in the AC.

MY problem, is that it's impossible to separate the shower supplies from the rest of the system without major disruption to the 12 month old ensuite, which she's not willing to do.

Her problem is that she wants to know if there's any way she can recover costs from the other "plumber" based on his contravention of the water regs? I told her it was probably a non starter.

Any ideas on the best way to approach this? And any advice on a suitable pump that will work in a whole/half house scenario?

 

[Killy Bing]

Hmmm....
whats their pressure + flowrate rate like ?
weigh up the cost of an unvented for everything against a whole house pump

 

[TBServices]

Unvented not an option. House is tank fed for a reason

 

[Killy Bing]

Installed a salamander whole house pump.
force 30 or soemthing.

everything else were grundfos homeboosts

 

[TBServices]

Do the H+C sides of the pumps work independently?

 

[Nostrum]

How about a switched electrical supply to the pump so at when you want a shower you flick a switch or pull cord in bathroom?

Not sure if that relates to the problem you've raised or if I've missed the point entirely.

 

[Ch4 plumbing]

Remove pump and replace with pipe work to gravity feed w/c ect
disconnect shower valve and cap supplies in wall
fit one of these (although expensive)
Quartz Digital
Exposed digital shower with adjustable head

although I may be miss reading what's going on.

 

[TBServices]

Thought about a shower with falling supplies Ch4 but there's no tiles to patch up the wall!

That would be best solution.

 

[TBServices]

Anyone have any ideas where customer stands on legal front with the pumped main?

 

[Ch4 plumbing]

What about using something like a PVC cladding to make good the whole of the shower wall, it's not the best answer but you can get some that look ok.

 

[tamz]

Thought about a shower with falling supplies Ch4 but there's no tiles to patch up the wall! That would be best solution.

If its not on an outside wall go in from the other side. Legally? If it effects other properties they "might" get a knock on the door from a water officer.

 

[lame plumber]

If its not on an outside wall go in from the other side. Legally? If it effects other properties they "might" get a knock on the door from a water officer.

if they reported it to water regs/supplier they would end up with an enforcement order and she would not get any choice about putting it right

 

[TBServices]

She wants to put it right, she just wants to know if the other plumber is liable for costs.

I guess what she's saying is, could she take him to court?

 

[tamz]

Anything is possible if she has deep enough pockets.

 

[Ray Stafford]

She wants to put it right, she just wants to know if the other plumber is liable for costs.

I guess what she's saying is, could she take him to court?

Yes she could. However, he could well argue to the court that he should have the chance to rectify it first, which the court may uphold.

 

[SimonG]

Yes she could. However, he could well argue to the court that he should have the chance to rectify it first, which the court may uphold.

Would it hold water with the court (pardon the pun) that as he had not worked to the regs the first time, wether ignorant of the rules or just lazy (neither of which i would deem a suitable excuse) then they had very little faith him getting it right the second?

 

[Ray Stafford]

Would it hold water with the court (pardon the pun) that as he had not worked to the regs the first time, wether ignorant of the rules or just lazy (neither of which i would deem a suitable excuse) then they had very little faith him getting it right the second?

The problem with going to court is that you just can't tell. If you could predict in advance what a judge would say, there would be no need for the court case, and 90% of lawyers would be out of work.

However, the principle that a supplier should be allowed the opportunity to rectify a mistake is fairly well established.

 

[chris watkins]

The problem is going to be compounded because it is not actually illegal to directly pump from the mains but any pump installed that draws more than 12 L/M must be notified to the water supplier of course if it effects others they may not allow it of may require a water meter to be installed.

 

[TBServices]

Would it hold water with the court (pardon the pun) that as he had not worked to the regs the first time, wether ignorant of the rules or just lazy (neither of which i would deem a suitable excuse) then they had very little faith him getting it right the second?

This was my argument.

IF she wins her case, the result may be that he has to be given opportunity to rectify his work, and let's face it, who would want him back in their house?

I'm not going to involve myself in the legalities any further and just give my price to rectify the faults.

I agree Tamz, anything is possible but no one in their right mind would agree to destroying a shower room that's only been installed for a year and cost however many £££££'s

 

[tamz]

I agree Tamz, anything is possible but no one in their right mind would agree to destroying a shower room that's only been installed for a year and cost however many £££££'s

It might be cheaper than a court case.

Be careful if you are offering advice on this that it is spot on as you may find yourself as a star witness if it goes to court.

 

[TBServices]

it might be cheaper than a court case.

Be careful if you are offering advice on this that it is spot on as you may find yourself as a star witness if it goes to court.

gulp!

 

[Reg Man]

Get the reg book out, go through the job with a fine tooth comb and pick up on as many breaches as possible relating to the work. Offer the customer a report detailing all of the defects and reference the reg sections, obviously for a charge. They are them armed, to take it through the small claims court. They must give fair opportunity to the installer to correct first though. Don't be worried about attending court, you've done your home work on your report and your qualified.

 

[TBServices]

It doesn't really benefit me to go down this route though. It would be better to just rectify the work and get paid IMO.