Water Softeners and Megaflo's

[Megaflo-Experts]

Anyone heard that Megaflos should not be used with a water softener?

Just had a call from someone with a hole in their stainless steel Megaflo cylinder (2 years old) - Heatrae Sadia's Quality and Reliability engineers report implied the cause was due to the use of a water softener - "This could possibly be a salt based water softener which has the potential to deliver higher levels of chloride into the water supply."

Needless to say, this is not covered under their warranty!!!!

Please enlighten me...I have never heard this before, but will definitely investigate it further.

 

[Frelon]

"Implication" sounds like a Heatrae Sadia get out! Properly softened water will have no effect on a stainless steel cylinder.

....and a properly maintained softener will not increase the levels of sodium chloride in the water.

Perhaps you need to give a little more information about the make and model of softener. Some softener manufacturers have a wealth of information regarding their use with current makes of central heating boilers.

 

[Megaflo-Experts]

Yes, it does sound like a desperate attempt at a get out clause!
Should we also be worried about stainless steel pumps, taps and fittings?

No details of the water softener, but I don't think it's anything special.

 

[marvoni]

They're trying their luck. If they've refused a warranty claim request a full copy of their report.

 

[Frelon]

Sounds like a call to Jon Cockburn at Heatrae Sadia might do the trick

From Heatrea Sadia website.....

Jon Cockburn, head of marketing at Heatrae Sadia, said: "Around 900,000 Megaflo HE hot water cylinders are installed in homes and commercial premises in the UK, and their trouble-free operation has given us the confidence to upgrade our 25-year guarantee to a lifetime one. We do not believe that any other manufacturer can match our cylinder production process, product performance or the benefits our unique internal air gap provides.”

Let's see if he puts his money where his mouth is!

Good luck.

 

[Howsie]

We've stopped fitting Mega-flows now as have have not honoured their guarantee 'promise'. Oso, Vaillant or RM if we're on a budget.

 

[Ermintrude]

We've stopped fitting Mega-flows now as have have not honoured their guarantee 'promise'. Oso, Vaillant or RM if we're on a budget.

Main ones ok and cheep cheep

 

[Roger Welton]

Main still same company as heatrae though.

 

[Ermintrude]

But 1/2 the price for...... Same product

 

[AWheating]

im sure there are some reasons why they wont cover the warranty. What you need to know is what actually was done to decide that the softener caused the issue?

if there is a report proving that the softener caused a specific problem with test results from samples then great. But if the manufacturer is speculating without correct investigation or previous research proving such a problem then it does seem to point towards anything to get out of the contract.

maybe if they read this thread they can come on the forum and explain there position.

 

[erpkid]

Unlikely to be the softener but it rather takes the shine off the price of vented stainless cylinders if there is an issue. Mind, you see stainless steel subjected to all sorts of stuff on ships so a little salt should not be an issue.

 

[Megaflo-Experts]

Heatrae Sadia are arranging for a senior engineer to visit the customer and take water samples, to pass on to their insurers. Sounds like they are still deciding whether it's covered or not!

It's good they are investigating why this happened, but there shouldn't be any question as to whether it's covered under warranty or not. I would want to know why it failed, primarily for R&D and continual product improvement.

I independently asked Heatrae Sadia about water softeners with Megaflos, and received the following useful and interesting reply:

"It is wrong to advise that a water softener cannot be used with a stainless steel water heater. There are a number of factors that can cause corrosive attack of stainless steel, one being high chlorides. Salt is sodium chloride so high concentrations of sodium chloride could cause problems however, all systems will differ so it is impossible to give a "black and white" answer.

A water softener works by ion exchange, sodium ions are exchanged with the calcium ions in calcium carbonate (lime scale), the salt put into the softener is not directly mixed with the water it is used to replenish the sodium ions that have been exchanged with calcium. The process will increase the sodium level in the water by a small amount, so if the sodium level in the (untreated) cold water supply is towards the high end of the allowable potable water limit (200 mg/l) this may push it over the allowable limit, but very few water supplies will have such a high sodium content.

It is a good idea to recommend that any installer check with the softener supplier and the local water supply company to find out what the likely sodium content will be in the water following the softening process. As long as it is within the UK drinking water regulation limits there is no reason why it cannot be used to feed a stainless steel water heater."

 

[Kev the gas]

I remembered reading this on an Albion copper cylinder a few weeks ago, the below text was copied from Albion website.obviously talking about a copper cylinder but may be relevant to stainless steel as well ????????

In areas where CaCo2 is greater than 200 mg/l suitable dosing/scale eliminators should also be fitted. Before a softener is used the system must be driven for six months to build up a protective copper patina. A bye-pass pipe can be fitted to allow this.

 

[Kev the gas]

Regarding Megaflo quality,recently had a customer whose new 300 ltr twin coil cylinder leaked from the immersion htr.

New lounge ceiling and full redecoration reqd, all paid for and the engineer sent admitted they have had quite a few !

 

[Megaflo-Experts]

Regarding Megaflo quality,recently had a customer whose new 300 ltr twin coil cylinder leaked from the immersion htr.

I've had a lot leaking from the immersion heater - never used to be a problem, but most of them in the last year did leak and/or needed tightening up when commissioning.

Told Heatrae Sadia about this, and they replied the installation manual states that factory fitted components should be checked for tightness, so not their problem!
I was hoping they would be more concerned about their quality control, rather than whose fault it was!

 

[Frelon]

Just read this on 'tinternet!

Turning Hard Water Soft
Water softeners operate on a simple principle: Calcium and magnesium ions in the water switch places with more desirable ions, usually sodium. The exchange eliminates both of the problems of hard water because sodium doesn't precipitate out in pipes or react badly with soap. The amount of sodium this process adds to your water is quite small -- less than 12.5 milligrams per 8-ounce (237-milliliter) glass, well below the standard set by the Food and Drug Administration for "very low sodium" [Original source was FDA, but link no longer works!].

So do not get hung up about the amount of sodium that gets added to your water. It will not harm your systems.

 

[marvoni]

I'd also be investigating exactly what material the 'stainless' is. Nowadays manufacturers have a nasty habit of marketing 'bright steel' (3CR12) as stainless steel. Unfortunately 'stainless steel' doesn't always mean what you think.