Water Test Results - Heat Exchanger Pack In

[Julie]

Hi

Our Vokera boiler was installed just over a year ago. The Heat Exchanger gave up the ghost last week and the engineer took a water sample and stated that is was likely that the system hadn't been flushed property and there were still chemicals present. I have received the water results but haven't got a clue what they mean? Can anyone help?

 

[999]

I think you have your answer, the system hasnt been flushed properley, take it up with your installer. It wants powerflushing again for sure

 

[gingalig]

Im not an expert at chemistry but it looks like, there are as the engineer said chemicals present in the system water, The PH levels indicate the acidity or alkaline levels of the water running around your heating system, 8.7 is fairly alkaline and outside the recomendations of the manufacturer as it will have eaten into the internal metal and pipework of your boiler. The results are telling you that the aluminium and copper levels are whats been eaten away or not flushed out, and is now mixed with your system water. Unfortunatley the manufacturer will probably tell you its an installer error for not flushing your system sufficiently and may well not pay for a new heat exchanger. You will need a really decent system flush and fresh inhibitor to protect the new heat exchanger which you are presumably having fitted. It's not a difficult job to test the levels of PH in your system and really should be close to neutral which is has a PH level of 7.

 

[Julie]

Thank you for your comments so far. I have been in touch with the installer who is adamant that he flushed the system and put the inhibitor in. In all honesty I do remember him leaving a machine running overnight to flush the system. He has told me that the manufacturer is prone to being difficult to deal with.

Thankfully Vokera did replace the heat exchanger for free however they have told me that my 5 year warranty is suspended until this is resolved!

Needless to say I don't know what to do now. I can see me having to pay a third party to flush the system and get water results to send to Vokera!

 

[townfanjon]

I do remember him leaving a machine running overnight to flush the system.

A machine running all night , blimey what was it

 

[Julie]

We were replacing a back boiler so it was a brand new combi that went in with new pipe work etc.

 

[Chuck]

Needless to say I don't know what to do now. I can see me having to pay a third party to flush the system and get water results to send to Vokera!

This is more 'consumer rights' than plumbing, so check with your lawyer or the CAB, but if you paid the installer for the boiler, installation and warranty then it's up to the installer to do whatever is necessary to persuade Volkera to reinstate your warranty because otherwise if it fails again it's the installer who is going to have to foot the bill for the repair.

I'm not a lawyer, but I'm fairly sure that the written opinion of the boiler manufacturer backed by lab tests will be enough to win a small claims action against the installer.

The installer thinks Volkera are 'difficult to deal with'. This could be true but it could also mean that their flushing method is not up to scratch and he's been caught out by them with the same problem before.

 

[999]

The writing is on the wall, get your installer back to carry out a proper power flush. Tell him you want to see the test results of the water after flushing assuming he has a TDS meter.
Then compare this to what the boiler manufacturer sent you by email

 

[Ric2013]

Powerflushing is rarely achieved by sleeping while a machine shifts water around. Seems like a strange way of going about it. Obviously I don't know the details, so there may be a logic to leaving the machine on overnight.

 

[gingalig]

Powerflushing is rarely achieved by sleeping while a machine shifts water around. Seems like a strange way of going about it. Obviously I don't know the details, so there may be a logic to leaving the machine on overnight.

I've always treated it as a bit of a workout, running up and downstairs checking and rechecking, flushing and tapping away, It would seem there is a much more relaxed approach that the Kamco guys didn't choose to share.

 

[Scott_D]

Probably a magnacleanse

Maybe the customer wouldn’t pay for a power flush
The boiler choice suggests budget job

 

[Julie]

The total cost of the job was over £4k and it included a powerflush along with moving and adding new radiators and removing old back boiler. We were getting other building work done at the time including a new kitchen so we couldn't afford to go for a top model boiler although I would still expect a certain standard of work to be carried out. The installer has gone all quiet on me however I will try and get in touch with them again today.

 

[999]

It's difficult for us to comment whilst not being able to see the job or extent of the pipework etc, but clearly the powerflush has not shifted the cleanser and flux from the system satisfactly.
I would definitely give your installer a nudge and ask him to reflush, it's not the end of the world this situation, I'm Sure any decent installer would come back and sort it.

 

[Julie]

Well I ended up having to pay the installer money to come back and do another flush as he was adamant that he had done the original flush correctly. I felt I really didn't have a choice in order to try and get the warranty back in place. The flush was carried out on Wednesday, whilst I was there, and we took a water sample again. I have just had the results and they look worse!! Anyone have any ideas? I have emailed the results to the installer and am awaiting his response.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

How is he flushing the system?

 

[Julie]

He said that he flushed the system and also did each radiator. He used some kind of vibrating tool on each radiator too. He used some kind of machine and he showed me the dirt on the filters after which was minimal. He was there for about 2 hours. Sorry don't know exactly how he flushed other than above.....

 

[ShaunCorbs]

How much did you pay for the clean ?

 

[Julie]

£300 grudgingly....

 

[Julie]

Well, after a second flush the results have improved however it's still failed! I have just noticed however that the fernox sample kit states that the results are based on using Fernox products. It looks like it was a Corgi inhibitor that was used. I am waiting on Fernox responding to my query as to how much of a difference that would make to the results however anybody have any idea? Really scunnered now - just want the warranty back.......

 

[Chuck]

Not using Fernox products won't affect the values, but may affect the interpretation of those values.

Are you, by any chance, using artifiically softened water to fill the system? Some of the numbers that are high make me wonder...

 

[Julie]

Hi, we are in Scotland so would that still be relevant?

 

[Chuck]

Hi, we are in Scotland so would that still be relevant?

Hmm. Apparently, most of Scotland has softwater so it's unlikely you'd have a water softener.

 

[Deleted member 32524]

Should be done by connecting to system preferably through the pump head and heat the water as it circulates and add enough cleanser for your radiator volume and let it circulate for 2 hours going round the radiators agitating the "sludge" inside, reversing flow direction of water often. Then close them all down bar 1. Work on that for 5 minutes per direction of flow, agitating radiator as you do it. Close that one open the next one up do the same with each individual one. Once finished again go around individual radiators and flush them until clear water comes out in each direction. Then a fully open system to get rid of anyting else. Add inhibitor and neutralising crystals. Check ph and total dissolved solids in water. Takes a full day to do properly and fit a magnetic filter to the return heating pipe on boiler. Then keep on top of looking after the water in the system with a chemical cleanse and inhibitor change every 3-5 years. (Not a powerflush again)