What electric works can plumbers undertake

[midsman]

Hello all

I’m looking for some clarification as to what electric works plumbers / heating engineer can undertake. It seems to be a grey are with part p defined scope etc which I believe has gone? And that part p is just a building Reg and not a qualification. So in light of my confusion some help is wanted.


so what can a plumber / heating engineer do. I mean with no electrical quals or part p.

I don’t just mean that they have the skill to do it but they have the legal right to do it. Aren’t breaking any buildings regs etc

can a gas safe heating engineer wire a new boiler into an existing fused spur even in a kitchen . ?


Can a plumber replace like for like electric shower

can a plumber replace a heating system component such as a zone valve, pump, thermostat - including wiring it into wiring centre

can they fit a new room stat as part of a new boiler

I very much believe in doing things correctly and doing the best I can.

 

[Gasmk1]

I was certified working from fused spur and wiring full system, changing anything on the sysyem can’t remember if this was due to BG electrical training also taking nvm level 3 when we started gasforce

 

[midsman]

I was certified working from fused spur and wiring full system, changing anything on the sysyem can’t remember if this was due to BG electrical training also taking nvm level 3 when we started gasforce

thank you for your reply. What certification do you have currently?

 

[Gasmk1]

City and guilds final and gas intermediate and final utilisation, nvq level 3 in gas accreditation’s in domestic and commercial

 

[midsman]

City and guilds final and gas intermediate and final utilisation, nvq level 3 in gas accreditation’s in domestic and commercial

thank you for that. Appreciated

 

[Aquarius]

I completed my essential electrics and our electrical manager has no problem me changing like for like stuff, adding wireless stats (from the boiler supply), etc.

 

[Murdoch]

If you are changing the fixed wiring then you need to be competent to install, test, certify etc

If you are changing like for like then crack on BUT if in the shower example the manufacturers instructions say the circuit needs RCD protection and there isn't any, you need to get this resolved ............

 

[midsman]

If you are changing the fixed wiring then you need to be competent to install, test, certify etc

If you are changing like for like then crack on BUT if in the shower example the manufacturers instructions say the circuit needs RCD protection and there isn't any, you need to get this resolved .

Thank you very much for this. What is the definition of fixed wiring?

do you mean the wiring up to for example the fused spur or the cabling up to the shower.
Does an appliance such as a shower, a shower pump, a boiler , a central heating control System that are all hard wiring count as fixed wiring?

does it count as changing the fixed wiring or the circuit when you swap like for like
[automerge]1605170638[/automerge]

I completed my essential electrics and our electrical manager has no problem me changing like for like stuff, adding wireless stats (from the boiler supply), etc.

Thank you for your reply. What course did you do for electrics

 

[Aquarius]

Thank you very much for this. What is the definition of fixed wiring?

Thank you for your reply. What course did you do for electrics

To me the definition of fixed wiring, is it’s a fixed part if the circuit, eg socket outlets, lighting. Non fixed is something that can usually be moved by means of flex cable, eg a boiler, zone valves, etc.

My course was called essential electrics, ran by citb, however I’m led to believe this one (citb) is no longer available.

 

[midsman]

To me the definition of fixed wiring, is it’s a fixed part if the circuit, eg socket outlets, lighting. Non fixed is something that can usually be moved by means of flex cable, eg a boiler, zone valves, etc.

My course was called essential electrics, ran by citb, however I’m led to believe this one (citb) is no longer available.

great. Thank you for taking the time to reply. So is a shower fixed or non fixed. ?

 

[Aquarius]

This might be one for @Murdoch or any other person with more knowledge, but I’d say the wiring to the pull cord is fixed, possibly even the wiring to the shower, but if you’re doing a like for like, eg same kw rating but have to move the wire slightly, I’d say it’s ok.

 

[SimonG]

Anything after the fused spur I'm happy to change/wire. S plan, y plan etc. Experience has found not a lot of electricians are actually comfortable when it comes to heating controls.
Showers like for like after a look at the fuse board to confirm rcd. If I'm not happy or unsure then its bring in the electrician time.
Even when I'm doing a bathroom you need yours eyes open for the lighting. Lots of lights in bathrooms dont meet the regs. I simply say to the customer that they need to get them sorted.

 

[Murdoch]

great. Thank you for taking the time to reply. So is a shower fixed or non fixed. ?

A shower is fixed when the supply cable runs in the fabric of the building, same as for any other circuit really.

If something is plugged in its not fixed

Fused spurs can get complicated .........

The other thing to watch out for with showers is higher wattage, cable size etc ..........

 

[midsman]

A shower is fixed when the supply cable runs in the fabric of the building, same as for any other circuit really.

If something is plugged in its not fixed

Fused spurs can get complicated ...

The other thing to watch out for with showers is higher wattage, cable size etc .

Thank you murdoch. So can plumbers replace an electric shower? can they wire into a fused spur?

 

[Murdoch]

Thank you murdoch. So can plumbers replace an electric shower? can they wire into a fused spur?

Using your examples I would say yes - and speaking for myself, I would never change a shower - leaks can cause a lot of damage and I don't think my PL covers such work

 

[gpbeck]

What do the insurers say? Or maybe don’t ask..

 

[midsman]

What do the insurers say? Or maybe don’t ask..

That’s the question lol. This is such a grey area.

 

[WC1]

spurs can get complicated .

Hi Murdoch, any chance you can elaborate a little....
I thought after spur was ok as long as circuit is protected properly.

 

[Murdoch]

Hi Murdoch, any chance you can elaborate a little..
I thought after spur was ok as long as circuit is protected properly.

it depends on where and how the load cable runs. If it’s in the fabric of the building its part of the fixed wiring.

 

[midsman]

it depends on where and how the load cable runs. If it’s in the fabric of the building its part of the fixed wiring.

so a fused spur that has the wiring before the spur that is in trunking or wall mounted is okay to wire into but if it’s in the wall it’s not?

 

[Chuck]

so a fused spur that has the wiring before the spur that is in trunking or wall mounted is okay to wire into but if it’s in the wall it’s not?

Some of the confusion here may be because the word 'spur' can refer to several different things. I'd use it to mean a branch circuit tee'd off a main circuit. It's also often used to refer to what I'd call a fused connection unit (FCU). FCU's come in several types, one of which is a flex ('pigtail') outlet that are often used to supply things like immersion heaters or boilers*.

My reading of @Murdoch is that in his opinion it's okay for you to connect flex into an existing FCU flex outlet but from there back to the consumer unit will be 'fixed wiring', which requires additional qualifications to work on. Where the FCU is being used as an isolator, not a flex outlet, it's a job for an electrician.

(*) There's a school of thought that holds that boilers should be connected via a 13A plug and socket so that a heating engineer can visually verify isolation before working on the boiler.

 

[Harvest Fields]

Boilers don’t run on a 13A fuse. (Just so that you know)

 

[Chuck]

Boilers don’t run on a 13A fuse. (Just so that you know)

The '13A' in '13A plug' does not refer to the fuse it contains but to the maximum rating. A 13A plug fitted with a 3A fuse is still a '13A plug'. You can also get 2A, 5A and 15A plugs but these don't contain a fuse at all.

 

[midsman]

thank you for your replies by fused spur I mean the white box that things like boilers , shower pumps , immersion heaters are wired into
[automerge]1605252947[/automerge]

thank you for your replies by fused spur I mean the white box that things like boilers , shower pumps , immersion heaters are wired into.

mu understanding is that these are called fcu’s

 

[Harvest Fields]

The '13A' in '13A plug' does not refer to the fuse it contains but to the maximum rating. A 13A plug fitted with a 3A fuse is still a '13A plug'. You can also get 2A, 5A and 15A plugs but these don't contain a fuse at all.

Was just clarifying as your original message didn’t say that.