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WaterTight

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What would you estimate to be a typical/fair plumber's mate rate if the employer is...

- In the South East

- A sole trader

- Hugely experienced, Gas Safe registered

- Doing mostly big jobs, usually booked weeks in advance, hardly any jobbing work and always busy

- Looking to employ someone in a permanent position, full time


And the employee is.....

- A novice with a fast-track 6129 Tech-Cert

- Starting more or less from scratch

Obviously work might be for free on trial, I'm talking about after that if taken on.
 
Well I do not know,but what I would say is if you have an oppertunity to get into a firm like described,get in there,prove yourself and go from there,lots would love the oppertunity
 
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Hi If i were the employer i would draw up a structure as to where you will benefit the person and a scale of payments against time and performance.
Some thing like :- 3 week trial at £100 per week, if successful and meets requirements £150 for next 3 months, review performance add another carrot if appropriate. Good Luck
 
What would you estimate to be a typical/fair plumber's mate rate if the employer is...

- In the South East

- A sole trader

- Hugely experienced, Gas Safe registered

- Doing mostly big jobs, usually booked weeks in advance, hardly any jobbing work and always busy

- Looking to employ someone in a permanent position, full time


And the employee is.....

- A novice with a fast-track 6129 Tech-Cert

- Starting more or less from scratch

Obviously work might be for free on trial, I'm talking about after that if taken on.
depends on age and how much they can do realy
if theres plenty of labouring work i normally give 50 quid a day for some one to help me but if i was taking someone evey day and they were just fetch and carying id think more in the region of 30 a day if under 21 possibly more if they could be let loose with some tools
 
Hey! You Guys!

Never heard of the national minimum wage? The only people you can pay less too are the under 18's.

If you charge your customers £40 an hour plus costs, how come you want to pay anybody less than £5 an hour?

Are you training to be like Bankers as well as Plumbers? :) :)
 
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Hi I totally understand your view. However plumbers are not equal, neither are trainees. If the person is just seeking a job pay the min wage and treat accordingly. If the person wishes to learn the trade and take the time to do so, you can also pay the min wage, and invoice for the time it takes out of the working day to demonstrate and explain. The point i am making is when you require post school education you pay. If the rate required is a burden to the trainer is does not happen. No training and no job. Our trade needs well trained new recruits, with out financial penalty.
 
it depends on what you can do without supervision.
if you cant make the money you are being paid then your employer will suffer a loss.
if its a wage you are after go and work on a big site. usually 80 - 100 a day if you can get on with it without having to pull your boss away from his work all the time but like i said , it really depends on what you can do and how quickly you can learn. you never know , after a while you might go on price work if you are working for a firm.
when i started off i was on 50 a day , 3 months later i was on 80 a day. it was quite a big site and i was working for a firm rather than a one man band but i was working with one plumber only , he was on price work so the more i made for him the more i got paid , which really is fair enough in my book.
 
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Hi If i were the employer i would draw up a structure as to where you will benefit the person and a scale of payments against time and performance.
Some thing like :- 3 week trial at £100 per week, if successful and meets requirements £150 for next 3 months, review performance add another carrot if appropriate. Good Luck


150 a week ! And after a trial period !

1st year trainees get more than that !
 
I think really it depends upon the capabilities of the mate & the business the plumber actually has. I dont consider myself as a mate but I when I am available offer a hand and sometimes watch.

I do it for nowt, but what I get out of it is a great deal I am still very much a learner of many aspects to plumbing. Yes I am self employed and I am pleased with my plumbing but still at the crawling stage lol :)

But it is good fun and I suppose I must do something right as my TS plumbers gone on holiday now, and will pass any wet plumbing to me whilst away.

For me its a two way relationship only the other day trying to marry up a cc toilet cistern to a old non matching toilet, 3 hours later I ring my samaritan plumber. Just to let me know I am doing it correctly and plumbing is such a joy when it doesnt go to plan.
 
I once worked for a company that put in a high guesstimate for work and got it. The thing is the customer investigated the prices and found how steep they really where, so took their customer elsewhere. The result was perhaps part contributory to the companies bankruptcy and the dole for the employees, we certainly seemed to loose a huge potentiality good large volume customer.

The thing is, today you can't afford guesstimates the prices have to be a fair reflection of costs. if your prices are too high you get no work or British Gas or Polish Plumbers come in and undercut you dramatically. That is the way free markets work. The customer doesn't mind it keeps the prices down.

But as Maggie Thatcher said and I am not a fan of hers "Easy profits,are not good for companies, they don't look at efficiency and others come in and take the market from them!" So basically you have to price tight and make up for it on volume.

I don't suppose we can expect to be earning £6 an hour for our labour in a shop, then go on a 6 weeks course, then expect to get £60 per hour.
If you think about it from a customers point of view and the governments who want to keep prices down, who do you think they will have sympathy with, you or the cheaper worker?

If BG can charge a set £160 for parts and labour for anything that might be wrong with a boiler. I know they do it on volume, and its very tight if a pcb has gone, but its more than likely the price the customer will want to pay. I suppose BG work on the basis that if you charge fair, you get bags of customers and out of all those customers only perhaps 2 or 3 per hundred will want a pcb fitted. The rest are probably £2 a time thermocouples. So based on 100 customers attracted by low prices your going to make a shed load of cash. Whereas the guy charging big prices is probably still sitting at home waiting for his or her first call.

If you charge £60 an hour and a Polish Plumber £30 there is little doubt who the customers will probably flock too.

So its not a case of how much you would like to be paid or how much you feel the customer will pay, but a proper pricing regime and sticking to it. A rich guy will probably call you back and tell his mates about you so you get more work, if you charge a fair rate. He will also probably think your not trying to rip him off, because he is rich, which being fair you shouldn't.

Its looking at your cost base and then deciding what is the minimum and maximum you can afford to charge without it affecting your trading position. If its high what can you do to becoem more efficent and get it down?

It might be in a tight market, that you make nothing beyond running costs and wages, plus about 2% profit. But if it brings in the work you can expand and employ people and make 2% out of each employee, get enough turnover and you could be richer fairly soon.

Don't forget, profit is a freebie added on to your wages and running costs, they are not guaranteed.

And if you put your cash in a bank you would only get about 0.2% why do we think we should get 100% plus outside a bank?

Get your prices and service levels right and the people will come to you, not you look for them. After all the Polish Plumbers did. And like it or not there are many more in the EU who will come in and take the work, if our prices are not reasonable.
 
 
 
Can see what you are saying Bernie, but can I correct you on British Gas

They are not doing any favours and are taking advantage of people,especially people on low incomes as so many big boys have found they can do

They are Charging £160 a year for cover, sometimes more, depending on cover, they have now said that you can join when your boiler has broken down instead of before were you had to wait a period before you could claim, they have changed the rules, just like the AA did, you can now call them out and join when you have a car break down
Why, because they get you to join their expensive cover scheme, sign a direct debit for in this case of £160 a year, say 13.70 a month, minimun year cover and then they have you,all for the sake of a £70 bill

Then as you say it becomes a numbers game, how many people will cancel once on scheme, cancel and next week your boiler may fail and cost you £200, all for you saving £13.70 on this months payment, that’s if you get that far, most people will forget about it and they have you for life, because now we are not talking £160 or full bill but £13.70 or possible big bill, even I would think about it, if I had not done the figures
Say you do not use there service again for five years, that repair has just cost you £800

I think anyone would have done the repair cheaper

Yes you say but if my boiler breaks down a few times a year, or once a year, I may be up, what I would say to you is if you have a boiler breaking down twice a year or every couple of years, it should not be there

Which, is what British gas will tell you, when you do call them back after 5 years of payments, they may repair if you are lucky and you get another £ 70 free repair for £ 800 but if boiler over 7 years old will tell you parts hard to get will have to wait two weeks ect, advise new boiler required, which is not covered and give you an over priced quotation, now you have paid them to come and sell you a new boiler

Admittedly their prices have come down in the last few years, but that is because they do not have the reputation of good workmanship any more and more people go for other quotes but to combat this, they allow payment to be spread over a certain time added to the gas bills, which also has the added benefit of keeping that customer not only on their cover policy but also ties them down to them as a gas supplier, which means they can not go to the cheapest gas provider any more unless they settle the account up in full.

Unless your are on a really tight budget, say away from the above

Over ten years you will be paying £1600, if you are paying anywhere near that in repairs, you have a big, big problem and it is not the Boiler, then on top of that you are going to splash out the cost for a new boiler
Also you may have to pay for repairs anyway, each year over the cold snap, I would say I do at least 5 jobs, being conservative, that are covered by British Gas, because they can not get there for a few days, if they can, because they are short staffed, they say the part needs ordering, will take a week, gives them time to get the cold snap over and back on top of things, I seem to find part on shelf or next day delivery and fit

What I advise customers who ask is put the same money in a savings account, pay any bills and after ten years go on holiday with the balance or put it towards a new boiler

I am all for insurance, spread the cost of repairs ect among a few, spread the risk, customers save and the company makes a fair profit, if this was the case the cover would be about £ 60 a year
But this is not such a cover, each person is paying for any repairs over a period of time and giving an individual profit to the company, so un-fair ,have given figures for one person, lets take a street of 120 houses,60 on one side 60 on the other
On the figures above that is £ 19,200 a year or £192,000 over ten years plus your boiler changers over ten years each property will have one, you have your foot in the door so lets say you get 60 (50% conservative I feel) say £1000 profit on each, that’s another 60,000 which gives you £252,000 or back to yearly £25,000
Now let me take you down a little estate, you know the kind of thing, lots of lots of semis down the streets or down the main road and point out four rows of streets and say to you, all I want you to do is sit here in your van, any time someone living down those four and ¼ streets rings up,(giving you a1/4 of a street to cover materials, you will still have change)you have to go and fix their heating and I will give you £100,000 a year, think any plumber would do the job, most could take on 4 times as many streets and still be on a 30 hr week for £400,000 a year
On Those figures we all would looooooove plumbing
 
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Hi! Puddle,

No its not that old one, its a new deal thing. BG guarantee to come out for a one off payment of about £160 and repair your boiler, I think any make, what ever is wrong with it.

Now if its a PCB or a Pump your already getting it cheap.

I imagine customers like it, for then they know exactly how much its going to cost them to get their boiler working again.

The small guy would probably be made up, if all it was where £2 thermocouples, but could he or she afford it if its was PCB's?

BG seem to be playing the odds that a lot of the repairs will be thermocouples and what they make on them covers for where they have to repair PCB's.

A lot of the Housing Associations up here have gone in for the same deal with companies, only they often seem to want to pay far less than £160 for a years complete Plumbing cover for each house. But they do seem to give out the houses in thousand blocks, so you can probably make money on volume.

Up here it seems many of our small companies have closed because of it.
 
Sorry Bernie, just tend to see red when British Gas mentioned, Not saying they do not have some good people working for them, they, do, very good but also some very poor one's and they can all hid behind this big protective cloak, have seen them get away with so much over the years, even down to this logo thing, bet you if they had changed over correctly as they should, all hell would have been let loose by now, if we hadn’t
Any way checked their website and see what you are saying about this repair offer
The quote I got for London repair was £210 and lincs was £168
You can get cheaper if you join a scheme and pay £2 a month, this is on direct debit
Do not know how long this will pan out for but is clearly a effort to increase there customer base on the homecare plan long term, as once they have a direct debit set up against a customer, not hard to push the £2.00 to £13.00, with enough sales pressure and if it gets rid of abit of the competition along the way so be it
Would have thought once called out they will be pressurizing customers to sign up for one of their long term plans
But as you say, it’s a numbers game and if you can take £210 from each and every job, that would more than cover costs and they will also add a percentage to more profitable plan, the conditions are very loose, so although they say an engineer will be with you the next day, that’s the first call, if job more detailed you could be waiting a week ect, would love to see the figures
Looking at it ,think,hopefully, my customers would still ring me up, if faced with a £210 bill from BG and no guaranteed repair time, think it will effect the bigger boys more like PP,does anyone know how long BG has been offering these deals
So we have British gas to the west of us and the polish to the East and trainee’s biting at our bum for a bigger slice, an’t life grand :D
 
gone off track a bit here boys
point 1
its catch 22 with regard to min wage
honest guy will try and pay min wage and more if he can
dodgy guy will take full advantage and pay as little as he can get away with
its hard for anyone to find another 200+ pounds to pay a mate ie 40hrs at 5.00 an hour
point 2
yes BG are playing the numbers game as parts and labour at 160.00 is hard to match
that said i hear plenty of people who get the initial diagnosis then play the waiting game for parts and fitting
the only way to compete is prompt punctual fair price service and BG will never compete the org is just too big and they apparently work the engineers into early hair loss and strokes
 
you have to understand the maths bg .charge monthly sevice payment when you add it all up ,a lot of subscribers boilers do not go wrong so no cost to bg there,,if 1 million people pay £15 a month =£15 000,000 a month plus intrest while in there bank.but most people could undercut there price for a boiler install
 
straight combi install bg are now down to about 3000.00 so still plenty of margin to undercut and still get a fair wage its just tricky about making profit as opposed to a wage
 
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