what is this tool

[subwoofer27]

My grandad was a Plumber in the 70's and was clearing out his garage and found these tools, a Rast pipe expander, and I havent a clue what the other one is, could you please tell me what they are and some idea of value thankyou.

Johnny

Attachment pic is included.

 

[migoplumber]

looks like a pipe expander to me, used right turns the end of your pipe into a socket?

maybe wait for a more mature plumber than myself to answer that one.

shaun

 

[stevetheplumber]

yes definatly a pipe expander had a tendency to split the pipe exspensive tool in its day not sure about the larger part never seen one that size before
they were realy made for aircon engineers who use very soft copper and braze rather than solder youll find the socket it forms a little shallow for soldering

 

[REDSAW]

mmmmm. wouldnt mind one of those, especially if it has imperial 1/2" and 3/4" sockets, save a fortune over time on old pipe systems.

value, about £40 if your lucky is my estimate but as it is old and not really necessary nowadays £20 to £30 realistically. some might say i'm joking its worth more but ask them if they will buy it?.

 

[Mike Jackson]

I'd have thought nearer £100 considering the cost of a rothenberger expander with just 15 and 22 heads comes out at nearly £200. I'd be looking at e-bay to maximise the price.

Mike

 

[subwoofer27]

thankyou everyone for your replys, i have it on ebay now, item no 290318717748

 

[dontknowitall]

Out of curiosity I looked that up. There's another pipe expander listed at £14,375!! Then the VAT ...

 

[subwoofer27]

what!!! where did you find that

 

[dontknowitall]

200312712129 (eBay)

Alternatively you could spend £80,000 on a 20 year old ... "My Life for 364 days" (apprentice?) 260412850296
Condition: Used
Postage £20

His first question and answer ...
Q: i will offer you £20 x
A: lol £20 how long am i urs for at that price

 

[heinz57]

Looks like two different kinds of socket expanders, the larger one should have a ratchet handle to turn the back end
square and rorate the screw, if you have the ratchet handle itll be worth more! The adjusting nut can be set so that
you get consistency when a number of same sized sockets are to be formed. As for the value, try taking it to the
Antiques road show! you never know, it might turn out to be an 'only fools and horses ' moment and be worth millions!!!

 

[Plouasne]

Wish I had a pound for every socket I have made with these tools, if I had my secretary would be doing the typing whilst I dictated , that was the days when plumbers were plumbers, not spanner monkeys, like I see a lot are these days

For the smaller tool, it was a quick anneal of the end of the copper tube, more than likely in an oxy acetylene flame, quick quench, slip the expander into the end of the tube squeeze the handles together 'et volia' a socket ready for hard soldering (BOC Cuprotetec, or Silphoss rods)

The larger tool was a bit more tough to use, after annealing the tube, and the expander was in the end of the tube, the expander body was held with an adjustable spanner whilst the threaded portion was screwed down with a "tommy bar" the two knurled nuts on the threaded portion were to stop you from opening the socket too far, when they were set right

The times for making a 4" copper branch on a 4" copper stack, in the shop on site was half an hour, and if you got your finger out working with a good mate who knew what he was doing, with the flame, 10 to 15 minutes was the time; 3 No 11/2" stab in's on a 4" stack (all copper)set 6" C to C apart, including the 9" shorts of 11/2" copper with a socket formed on the end, hard soldered into the 4" copper quarter of an hour from start to finish

I first did copper work like this in 1962 then in the late '60's early '70's, the last one I did was in the late '80's and that was a 4" x 4" x4" 90° corner branch

 

[jpm]

These are what I use 15mm and 22mm only takes 30 seconds to make a socket and only 1 joint

 

[Plouasne]

I have used the "drifts" as well, but prefer to use the expansion tool, no missing and hitting the hand with the hammer, that hurts

 

[Hugh]

Hey guys its a flaring tool very good used one of these everyday when i worked in german, thats only half the kit you also need the compression clamp witch is hydrallic excelent tool its idiot proof.

 

[Bernie2]

Hmm!

Everybody seems to be saying they have used the tool. But do they still use one? No! And why not?

Well fittings are so cheap and simple now days, nobody wants to fiddle with old stuff.

The trade has moved from a wider tactile base to a more knowledge based trade.

The theory is mostly the same, but the practise is now much easier and faster.

And I must admit, I would rather install a PVC soil stack than have to go through all the old 3/16" cast, buzzer and pot, squirrel tails, chain and wheel cutters, molten lead and packing again. Taking a chance that the socket was dry and expect to get a silver waistcoat or man in the lead mask job, any time it rained.

Okay who used meths to dry the socket first?

Pipe expanders and only weaken pipe.
How can opening a pipe out, make it anything other than weaker than it was intended to be?

Half hard copper isn't lead, which you can dress to gain uniform thickness, expanding thins the copper and so it must make it weaker by being thinner.

But then I find it easier and quicker to use a fitting, speed is a big factor in modern Plumbing. On a modern site you probably would not get the time to anneal and use expanders anyway.

But saying that if the price of couplers ever goes up!!!

Its amazing really,I remember working on sites where the only difference between profit and loss was the cooker point plastic cover. In those days, probably if they could use expanders and save the cost of a coupling they probably would. But today an end feed is about 5p and forming a socket about £1 its no competition is it?

Going back to the old days, I remember when pipe came in 20' lengths and all you got to pipe a house out was one straight coupler. And that is no exaggeration, it was all bending. But Yorkshire or Conex fittings where very expensive.

Then the end feed fittings came out, and you got a box full. It perhaps saved on mis bent pipe, but probably encouraged the use of more elbows. But hey! We got a dip in the scrap off the boss usually! End feed meant the scrap mountain virtually vanished.