what pipes to fit for shower - need help quckly

[lauri]

hi guys /girls need advice on what shower to fit cannot be electric as we already have one en-suite and screws up building regs..Problem is an unbalanced water feed system.got a coldwater gravity fed hot water tank and a coldwater feed from a borehole high press. direct to shower head what can i do to remedy situation without drastic measures..is there a shower on the market that could cope with a 0.1 bar hot water feed and a 2.5 /4 bar coldwater feed sounds daft but iam a mechanic not a plumber ,also if i were to take a line off of my gravity feed to hot water tank [22mm pipe] and bring that to the shower head [15mm pipe] would that effect flow to tank.. so in effect using the coldwater feed to the hot water tank as my cold water source to the shower at the same time as drawing hot water from the hot water tank thus equalising the pressure problems any help greatly appreciated cheers lauri.

 

[helpsy]

hi guys /girls need advice on what shower to fit cannot be electric as we already have one en-suite and screws up building regs..Problem is an unbalanced water feed system.got a coldwater gravity fed hot water tank and a coldwater feed from a borehole high press. direct to shower head what can i do to remedy situation without drastic measures..is there a shower on the market that could cope with a 0.1 bar hot water feed and a 2.5 /4 bar coldwater feed sounds daft but iam a mechanic not a plumber ,also if i were to take a line off of my gravity feed to hot water tank [22mm pipe] and bring that to the shower head [15mm pipe] would that effect flow to tank.. so in effect using the coldwater feed to the hot water tank as my cold water source to the shower at the same time as drawing hot water from the hot water tank thus equalising the pressure problems any help greatly appreciated cheers lauri.

Can't you run a cold feed from CWSC ?
PRV?

 

[lauri]

sorry man what is cwsc or prv ??

 

[helpsy]

CWSC-Cold Water Storage Cistern
PRV-Pressure Reducing Valve
Sorry

So you've only got 1 metre from cwsc to shower (1 bar = 10 metres head roughly)

 

[lauri]

in a word i do not know...i only have one cold water tank fed from borehole high press. in the loft and that is supplying [gravity fed] the hot water tank in the airing cupboard .plumb center told me that as i have an unequal system low press hot water [from hot water tank in airing cupboard] at shower head and high press.coldwater [direct from borehole] also at shower head i have to somehow balance these two different sources to equal press. otherwise most showers will not work. so...what to do???

 

[Puddle]

As you say bring a seperate cold feed supply from the tank that supplies your hot water cylinder and then to increase pressure if required fit a intrigrated pump shower mixer unit bring power for pump off normal ring main

 

[lauri]

Re: what to fit need help quickly

oh yes i have only got maybe 0.5 meter between coldwater tank and top of shower head to be...

cheers puddle ..can i then take [tap into ] a coldwater feed [15mm pipe]from the 22mm pipe that runs from the coldwater tank in loft to the hot water tank in airing cupboard without disrupting the service to the hot water tank [ running it dry ] as i am also taking water from the same source to the shower head as a coldwater feed i realise this equals th epress. a sthey are then both gravity fed but am not sure whether iscrew up the feed to the hot water tank i cannot tap another outlet into the coldwater tank in loft as it is an old fibreglass type bathtub.

 

[Puddle]

Officially the answer is no, you would have to fit a seperate tank connector to supply cold to shower,especially as is going to be pumped
You should be able to drill hole big enough for 1/2 tank connector,have you room for maybe another smaller tank just to supply cold

However if you were discussing the issue,one might say only a small booster pump to be fitted for shower use only,hot and cold at same time to be operated,if tee piece fitted right next to existing 22mm tank connector outlet,possibly operation would be ok but not a good plumbing practice

 

[lauri]

bang on man...you have answered my query what i gather from your reply is that it would be better to have an independant tank to supply the pumped shower i guess i can fit one but the loft hatch is oh so small what size tank do you recommend also can you recommend a decent shower model to wash to grubby teenagers every day they both think they are bikers so they are generally filthy i spose my steam cleaner would do and solve the problem of this tank thank you for your help so far mate,,regards laure ps i was told the new team power shower 1000 was ok any clues???

 

[REDSAW]

fit a triton integral pumped shower from the cylinder and cws pipe in loft to low voltage supply.

 

[lauri]

to redsaw thanks for your reply//i am trying to fir another cw cistern in loft to save disturbing the old cistern that supplies the hot water tank in airing cupboard and route that to the shower head acting as a gravity fed cold water supply equalising the gravity fed hot water supply from tank. i take it that the triton integral pumped shower unit is a good/reliable model as i am planning to tile the whole room inc.floor and dont want to go back into the tiles later on to change pipe centres or leaks.1.last question is it better to bend[with pipebenders] copper pipe rather than solder 90 degree bends on .thanks.

 

[stevetheplumber]

there used to be a shower that worked on mains and tank fed hot which drew the hot in via a venturi nut i cant remember the name of them, anyone ?

 

[lauri]

cheers steve i will google this ..as it is seemingly a lot of work to go thru just to first down the press. on borehole/mains feed to equalise then bring them both up again to get a good showewr press.

 

[Puddle]

The shower mentioned is the hydro flow shower,I did not mention them because the importer has stoped bringing them in and although you can get them from abroard,they are not very good and there reliability is poor and performance is only as good as a cheap electric shower.I fitted about 40 in a new developement a few years back for a land lord and had a problem with over half within 18 months,when they were new they just got hot enough to have a shower ,then after a year the hot mix got less and less
Anyway would not advise,triton,newteam or wicks do a pumped unit
It may seem like alot of work but once you get stuck in will only be a morning and will give you a really good shower with lasting results
By rights as the cold feed is for pump supply it is better to bend or use swept bends
However why not run in plastic,I do not like push fit,but on long runs the plastic pipe is ideal,connect with a compresion fitting from tank and just run straight to shower and use compresion fitting at shower end

 

[lauri]

hi puddle what about the trevi-boost venturi shower i understand what you are saying its just i do have a 22 mm hot water fed in the next room [taking from the bath hot] and the 15mm coldwater mains/borehole is in place am going to go with your advice htough as if i have to replumb then so be it if it is for reliability cheers,please reply asap as i need to get plumbing done by sat.am as the plasterers are booked.thanx.

 

[Puddle]

The Trivi Boost venturi shower is the same as the hydro flow design,the cold water pressure pulls the hot water through the valve and mixes
I would not recommend it put can provide a shower as a final option
The reason I used them as mentioned was because,the properties were flats and no room for a storage tank above shower
Anyway it would work but do not think you will be happy with it,especially for the sake of a few more hours you could provide a really good powerfull shower
Also while I think of it the hot water supply has to be a certain temp to the venturi shower,another problem in a house hold ,as if cylinder only warm after use else were,the shower will be cold,also do not know were you are but in winter when cold water very cold this effects temp reached by unit
Your other option would be to put a pump on a hot supply from cylinder and a pressure reducing valve on the cold

But as said best way is tank,spend a bit more time now or down the road,spend twice as much

 

[lauri]

ok puddle will go with your option of tap into gravity supply to hot water tank from loft cw cistern this i s an old unit made from fibreglass and contains 200 litres [osamaglass bathtub style] i really really am a bit worried about drilling into this to get an independant feed from this source as you mentioned previously it is bad practice to take a tee from the existing 22mm fed pipe to the hot tank in airing cupboard is this an absolute must as i cannot get another tank into the loft easily small access [50cm.x50cm.] or are there smaller cw tanks that would go up and then provide a total independant supply. also what shower integral pumped unit would you recommend thanx again for the agony plumber advice it is really appreciated cheers lauri

dear puddle am i being a nancy about drilling thru the fibreglass tank and resealing it properly i would not think it would split with a good drill and some round filing how would you approach this????

 

[Puddle]

Well you do not need a 50 gal large tank,you are only suppling cold to a shower and your refill time is going to be good from your mains pressure so just put a small 20 gal in loft,they will go through 50 cm
All units mentioned are ok,Triton would be good as any parts you require in furture will be easy to order over the phone

I am not going to advise anyone to do something they are not comfortable with,as you say if you damage tank,you are left with a big problem,I have not seen condition
or specification on tank

 

[lauri]

cheers man the triton shower would it have a model name/no/that you would recommend thanks for all the info you have ben a great help ..if you get a problem with the car get in touch via this web....i spose i got carried away with the venturi idea as it reminded me of carburretors on motors but also like showers they are nearly all fuel injected [pumped] till later lauri

 

[MarkB]

Just to add another option............

How about a pressure equalising valve

By-pass, Pressure Reducing Valves & Thermostats<br>Condensate Pump & Fittings

I've just recently fitted one to an un-balanced basin mixer and it works really well. It automatically reduces the higher pressure to match the lower one.

Mark

 

[Puddle]

Not enough head on 'lower one'

 

[lauri]

thanks guys but iam going to go with puddles advice as i feel it is the most reliable method and involves no extra valves /pumps etc/etc just need advice on a good type/model of integral pumped shower to fit thanks everyone.

 

[tackleburger]

Lesson No1. Fit a trevi boost designed for this type of system and it works really well.

Lesson No2. Do not go to plumb centre.

 

[REDSAW]

plumb centre

rather go to the job centre.