Where does the plumbing stop and the gas engineering start???

[Aqua Mechanica]

Just a quick question, all in the title really.

Obviously as a plumber, I can install all the rads and flow & return pipework for a heating system bt how near to the boiler can I actually get? Am I right in saying the only things I'm not allowed to touch are the gas pipe and the boiler itself?

After all, I did a combi jig at college all those years ago?

(For the record, I'd do the gas but its so expensive and I have no one to work or train with. I've actually decided to do an Honours Degree in Building Services Engineering [Mechanical] instead as it's far easier to achieve!!!)

But honestly, where does the Plumber stop and the Gas Technician start?

Cheers

Ben Wood
Bexleyheath Plumber

 

[fast phil]

Dont touch the flue or the gas pipe, and every thing will be cushty

 

[fuzzy]

good on you for doing the Honours degree, did you have previous quals?

 

[plumbster3456]

Dont touch the flue or the gas pipe, and every thing will be cushty

as above the only thing you cant do is fit the flue and connect gas pipe to meter or boiler.
you can run it to a foot from either but as long as you don't connect it up

 

[fuzzy]

as above the only thing you cant do is fit the flue and connect gas pipe to meter or boiler.
you can run it to a foot from either but as long as you don't connect it up

your not suppose to run the gas pipe let alone pipe it up, big push from GSR on this. its to stop plumbers doing everything and then paying someone to do the final connection and commission, not allowed

 

[kirkgas]

Dont touch the flue or the gas pipe, and every thing will be cushty

you cant hang the boiler bracket to the wall, then put the boiler onto it, and as above you cant fit any of the gas pipe or flue

 

[kirkgas]

as above the only thing you cant do is fit the flue and connect gas pipe to meter or boiler.
you can run it to a foot from either but as long as you don't connect it up

sorry plumbster you need to enlighten us where the one foot rule comes from, it is a total no-no, splitting hairs as we like to do on here, can a plumber run a 22mm copper pipe without connecting it to the gas supply, as until it is connected it isnt a gas pipe is it? then after it is connected (by a gas engineer) he has turned it into a gas pipe, however the problem with that is the gas engineer has to then commission a pipe he hasnt fitted or checked as fitted properly, it breaks the gas regs to connect a gas supply to a pipe without confirming it is fitted as per the gas regs, so the gas engineer has broken the regs, technically the plumber hasnt broken the regs as he simply fitted a spare pipe along side his flow and return, but it is fairly obviuos what it is going to be used for, but i dont have a prob with plumbers doing this, fair play to them for getting a fud to connect it for them and take the rap for the whole install when it all goes pete tong

 

[wards]

been out to a few bg installs where they have used an old flow or return pipe as the gas supply to a new boiler just for convenience.:-(

 

[Bernie2]

Hmm!

True enough there are many anomalies in gas work. For instance if you do a gas check your basically saying the installation is okay?

But if the pipework is in the floor or under laminate flooring where you can't inspect it, all your really saying is that it passes the standard drop test.

You can of course pipe up the water right to the boiler jig, but not hang the boiler as its usually part of the gas train. The flue system is classed as part of the gas train.

But never mind electricity should take over from gas soon and although its perhaps just as dangerous anybody can install it and then call the council out to inspect it for a fee. Which is how it should be.

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

as above the only thing you cant do is fit the flue and connect gas pipe to meter or boiler.
you can run it to a foot from either but as long as you don't connect it up

wrong,you cant touch any off it

 

[plumbster3456]

sorry plumbster you need to enlighten us where the one foot rule comes from, it is a total no-no, splitting hairs as we like to do on here, can a plumber run a 22mm copper pipe without connecting it to the gas supply, as until it is connected it isnt a gas pipe is it? then after it is connected (by a gas engineer) he has turned it into a gas pipe, however the problem with that is the gas engineer has to then commission a pipe he hasnt fitted or checked as fitted properly, it breaks the gas regs to connect a gas supply to a pipe without confirming it is fitted as per the gas regs, so the gas engineer has broken the regs, technically the plumber hasnt broken the regs as he simply fitted a spare pipe along side his flow and return, but it is fairly obviuos what it is going to be used for, but i dont have a prob with plumbers doing this, fair play to them for getting a fud to connect it for them and take the rap for the whole install when it all goes pete tong

forget the one foot bit (one inch or one metre it makes no difference) there is no law or regulation against a plumber or heating engineer who are not gas safe registered running a 22mm pipe and soldering it etc until near the boiler / meter trust me who ever says otherwise is wrong.
And also why cant a non gas safe registered plumber not hang the boiler and jig this is news to me.
whoever is commissioning will check everything like hanging of boiler is done right.
I hope whoever says otherwise can refer me to a regulation that says different than what I think.

 

[plumbster3456]

wrong,you cant touch any off it

yes you can

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

yes you can

no you cant gas safe a side we now have to be competent plumbers as well and need to be members of approved schemes or is that scams

 

[oldplumber]

oh noooo not another pantomine performance. See the regs re work on gas related items, who can work on what and youll find that you are not allowed to be paid for working on gas pipework ,flues etc if your not gas registered, if you dont believe us call up gas safe for their opinion, tell them what youve been doing and await a response, then let us all know the outcome.

 

[fuzzy]

if your employed or self employed and not gas safe reistered you cannot work on gas. just coz the pipe hasnt made it to the boiler yet doesnt mean it isnt a gas pipe does it!!! GSR are hot on this to stop this bluff, and i for one agree with it

 

[HoodedClaw]

I've just finished the 6129 and this was hot topic on the heating week... We were told that we can hang the jig and drill the flue hole (both of which I didn't think we were allowed too do, so I questioned it hard) and connect up the wet side. Then Nice Mr gas man comes and connects flue/boiler/gas and commissions. (for £500 last time I had to do it)

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

I've just finished the 6129 and this was hot topic on the heating week... We were told that we can hang the jig and drill the flue hole (both of which I didn't think we were allowed too do, so I questioned it hard) and connect up the wet side. Then Nice Mr gas man comes and connects flue/boiler/gas and commissions. (for £500 last time I had to do it)

now i am being accused of being nice,thats it i am taking black cat gases advice i am off for a strongbow and i dont even like cider LOL

 

[plumbster3456]

oh noooo not another pantomine performance. See the regs re work on gas related items, who can work on what and youll find that you are not allowed to be paid for working on gas pipework ,flues etc if your not gas registered, if you dont believe us call up gas safe for their opinion, tell them what youve been doing and await a response, then let us all know the outcome.

I am gas safe registered so I am doing nothing wrong just so you know however that does not mean I cant ask one of the plumbers I work alongside to run a 22 mm pipe along side the other pipes he is doing does it?
or I cant ask him to hang the boiler if for instance i am doing a gas test or running a gas pipe does it?
people have got some strange ideas about what can and cant be done.
does gas safe registration make you a god ? no it doesnt

 

[Reg Man]

I agree with you Gas Man. The Gas Safety (installation & use) regulations refer to gas work and gas fittings. If you even hang the boiler bracket on the wall this is part of the gas work. Just put the rad's and water pipework in but don't touch the boiler. You can take the front off a boiler, as long as you do not expose a gas way (Combustion chamber).

 

[kirkgas]

I am gas safe registered so I am doing nothing wrong just so you know however that does not mean I cant ask one of the plumbers I work alongside to run a 22 mm pipe along side the other pipes he is doing does it?
or I cant ask him to hang the boiler if for instance i am doing a gas test or running a gas pipe does it?
people have got some strange ideas about what can and cant be done.
does gas safe registration make you a god ? no it doesnt

you are right it doesnt make me God, however if you want me to come along and sign for your work i MUST confirm it is right, the only way i can confirm it is to do it myself, sorry if that seems arrogant, if you have fitted the jig and boiler how do i KNOW it is done properly and wont fall off the wall and cause a major gas leak, re the gas pipe, as i said the gas enginner CANNOT connect a pipe to gas unless he CONFIRMS it is safe to do so, a TT will not confirm this, it needs to be a visual inspection on every joint, which i would do as i fitted the pipe, but cannot do if you have the first fix in and the floors down, so how am i to CONFIRM it is safe and comply with the regs if you have done the pipe before i got there, of course a plumber and gas engineer working together on a heating install has one guy starting upstairs and one downstairs and they meet in the middle but that is the gas guys choice and is still technically wrong for the reasons i gave above
i aint getting into the DIY can i cant i debate, i assume you mean who can do what legally for gain as a two man team or a plumber doing first fix, and as i have said, the jig, boiler, gas pipe and flue are a no-no, if you think i'm wrong contact Gas Safe and tell them you have done these items and you want written confirmation what you have done will allow a gas guy to connect and confirm safety and conformity with the regs

 

[kirkgas]

forget the one foot bit (one inch or one metre it makes no difference) there is no law or regulation against a plumber or heating engineer who are not gas safe registered running a 22mm pipe and soldering it etc until near the boiler / meter trust me who ever says otherwise is wrong.
And also why cant a non gas safe registered plumber not hang the boiler and jig this is news to me.
whoever is commissioning will check everything like hanging of boiler is done right.
I hope whoever says otherwise can refer me to a regulation that says different than what I think.

i'm sure this is what i said, however i also said the gas guy is contravening the regs by connecting this newly fitted empty pipe to a gas supply,

 

[plumbster3456]

I give up if this is the case lol. I have seen people become gas safe registered in less than 6 months with no plumbing experience I know which one of the two I would trust on one of my jobs
1/ plumber 2/fast track gas engineer =plumber hands down
obviously not the actual gas work itself but the soldering of pipes etc

 

[coley]

When you are doing additions to a system and say 50% of the pipe work is inaccessible then how can you check the installation is up to standard.

 

[fuzzy]

a tightness test

remember 'reasonably practicable' you can only be expected to go as far as reasonably practicable

 

[dougs.cowan]

Does this discussion not just highlight the complexity of the detail in the regulations? The regs state that a competent person can work on gas, why does it not just state that to be classed as competent you must be a registered gas engineer.