Why does downstairs heating has to be on for upstairs to work?

[Husk24]

Hi All

I have a question regarding my heating setup, I moved in 5 years ago and since replaced boiler and added 3 nest controls. I have a system boiler with water cylinder and have three nest thermostats, one controls and turns on the boiler for downstairs apart from the conservatory where I have another nest , that only works when the downstairs heating is on and I can see a valve for that near the boiler.

my issue is upstairs, I can only heat upstairs with downstairs being on, I have to have downstairs turned on , if I operate the upstairs nest thermosta it doesn’t switch the boiler on without turning downstairs thermostat on. When I had my boiler replaced/installed , the engineer did try to source the valve for upstairs but couldn’t find if there is such a valve anywhere, it’s definitely not near the boiler where the main and conservatory valve is.

can anyone shed some light in this? Is there potentially a hidden valve for upstairs? Or is there a need for some repiping to separate the zones or could it be just an electrician installation that needs changing?

thanks

 

[exedon2]

To be clear non of your heating works until downstairs zone is on?
With a system boiler with 3 heat zones & hot water you would expect 4 zone valves if system correctly installed.

 

[Husk24]

Correct non of the heating works until downstairs is switched on. its like the downstairs nest turns the boiler on, upstairs nest turn the upstairs valve on. Im not trained in anyway but its my way of understanding this setup

 

[exedon2]

How many motorised valves can you see? Picture would be useful
Assuming you have 4 valves its a wiring problem any competent installer/electrician just needs to follow extended 'S' plan wiring diagram.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

can we have a pic where your zone valves are?

 

[Husk24]

Thanks very much for the replies, I have taken a few pictures, I think I can see 3 valves, one for the water, conservatory valve (is written on valve) and I believe other is the downstairs valve. I have also taken a few extra pix of the pipe work should that help. I am based in West Yorkshire BD postcode should any local engineers be interested to sort this out for me. Thanks

 

[exedon2]

Looking at that you seem to have no valve for upstairs heating unless its hidden elsewhere?
Competent heating engineer required.

 

[Husk24]

If its hidden where likely could if be? I know thats like asking how long is a piece of string! Will I be able to hear it switch on or open (if there is a valve)
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what are the other possibilities how upstairs heating is controlled ? I know a possibility of a valve somewhere , what are the other possibilities how it is controlled?

 

[exedon2]

In simple terms follow the pipework or cables up to first floor heating.
When you turn ground floor heating on do the bedrooms come on at same time or stay off until you turn controller for bedrooms on?

 

[Husk24]

Ground floor nest only turns on the ground floor not bedrooms, they stay off until I turn on the upstairs controller/nest.

 

[exedon2]

On that basis you must have a another zone valve for bedroom zone
The heating flow should come from boiler and be taken to all 4 zone valves. Sounds like your system has a separate feed to hot water then one feed to a heating zone valve which goes through valve to feed ground floor but also feeds other two zones .
Need to find missing valve move it near boiler re pipe as required

 

[Husk24]

On that basis you must have a another zone valve for bedroom zone
The heating flow should come from boiler and be taken to all 4 zone valves. Sounds like your system has a separate feed to hot water then one feed to a heating zone valve which goes through valve to feed ground floor but also feeds other two zones .
Need to find missing valve move it near boiler re pipe as required

Thanks for the reply, any tips on getting to the source? I have tried to see if I can hear anything , any valve noise opening but nothing.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Where do the grey pipes teed into the pipes the port valves are connected?

 

[Husk24]

Where do the grey pipes teed into the pipes the port valves are connected?

sorry which picture you looking at?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

sorry which picture you looking at?

3rd pic in your list

 

[Husk24]

3rd pic in your list

Hi Shaun, the grey pipes that go towards the left go into the garage radiator, I have attached more pix if it helps anyone to identify anything that could help me find this mystery valve. Thanks

 

[gmartine]

Couldn't the upstairs zone valve just be faulty/stuck open after all you can't seem to hear the valve motor opening?

Did the zoning ever work independently (pre Nest)?

 

[Husk24]

Couldn't the upstairs zone valve just be faulty/stuck open after all you can't seem to hear the valve motor opening?

If thats the case wouldn’t upstairs always stay on? The upstairs nest controls it and the heating goes off and on when needed
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If thats the case wouldn’t upstairs always stay on? The upstairs nest controls it and the heating goes off and on when needed

With the previous thermostat is was still the same setup, had to keep downstairs on in order to turn on/heat upstairs.

 

[gmartine]

I thought I read that upstairs only comes on when downstairs is on? Did the zones ever work independently?

Edit ok answered.

 

[Husk24]

I thought I read that upstairs only comes on when downstairs is on? Did the zones ever work?

I can put downstairs heating fine on its own, but can’t put upstairs heating on its own, i have to have downstairs on in order to heat upstairs, its always been like that when I bought the house. If I turn the thermostat on for upstairs on its own, nothing happens, the boiler doesn’t switch on and no heat in radiators.

 

[EvilDrPorkChop]

Think your issue is in the second picture there. You've got two motorised valves. One before, then a tee afterwards, that comes down and a 15mm pipe leaving before the next motorised valve. Unless of course, someone has put the valve on back to front (Wrong way)

Either way there's some shocking plumbing going on in all the pics 😂

 

[gmartine]

If the zoning was faulty pre nest then you need to get someone in to rewire/plumb.

 

[Husk24]

Think your issue is in the second picture there. You've got two motorised valves. One before, then a tee afterwards, that comes down and a 15mm pipe leaving before the next motorised valve. Unless of course, someone has put the valve on back to front (Wrong way)

Either way there's some shocking plumbing going on in all the pics 😂

I can believe it, the previous owner was a builder and he did some shocking things to the electricity which I had to change/made safe and I wontbe surprised he did some unusual changes to the piping heating setup.
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Only other place I haven’t checked for the missing valve is in the garage loft attached next to the house, I can see a pipe going up into it..

 

[gmartine]

I can believe it, the previous owner was a builder and he did some shocking things to the electricity which I had to change/made safe and I wontbe surprised he did some unusual changes to the piping heating setup.
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Only other place I haven’t checked for the missing valve is in the garage loft attached next to the house, I can see a pipe going up into it..

Please do not blaspheme in the house of plumbing.

Edit: I don't think you have a missing zone valve, I just think this was an S plan system that was extended rather poorly.

 

[Husk24]

Please do not blaspheme in the cathedral of plumbing.

Lol I knew him, believe me he did some other shocking things around the property, extending electrical wiring illegally and dangerous, building over a manhole .. list goes on ... so I can believe if he did the piping himself for the heating ..