work placement

[REDSAW]

hi folks,
can any one in the midlands help out my cousin?.
he is 27 and was a computer programmer for 6 years after leaving uni. now he has just passed his c.g 6129 level 2 in plumbing and is seeking practical training experience for nvq 2 to 3 over the next few months.
he is willing to pay (of course) £150 per week (40 hours) for the right mentor.

only serious replies please, thanks.

 

[kingm1988]

he is willing to pay (of course) £150 per week (40 hours) for the right mentor.

Should people who have just passed their 6129 be looking to pay plumbers to take them on?? It sounds like quite a good idea to me. But you say "of course" like it's expected. Is it?

 

[newbie1]

you need to pay these days otherwise whats in it for the plumber a load of questions and unknown skillset and risks to his public liability insurance who will have to be told as he will need employee liability and also say trainee gets injured then decides to call accidents r us and sues the plumber kinda makes you think why bother ime afraid

 

[Dannypipe]

I took on a guy from the local plumbing academy - he worked hard for me for 3 months, un paid. At the end of it, someone came out from City & Guilds and did an on site inspection. I signed all his paper work and bobs your uncle he's now got his level 2, and is sitting his level 3.

I paid for his clutch on his car as a thankyou. People that expect to get paid are greedy, and frankly are taking the micky.

I'm now what C&G's call a 'work place recorder' and I'm pleased to have helped a guy on the road to a new career.

I will admit, that the constant questions can start to wear thin, but we all had to learn, and I still continue to learn every day.

 

[kingm1988]

Fair play. Like you say, we all have to start somewhere. I finish my 6129 next month and i've got to tell you, the prospect of finding a plumber to take me on in London makes me feel a bit sick, especially after reading so many of the posts on this forum regaring the lack of work etc.

I don't expect to get paid as a plumbers mate, especially as I have NO previous experience outside of my training centre at all (bar fixing a leaking tap in my kitchen ...a very proud moment for my mum). I was initially planning on ringing up all of my local plumbers and offering my services for free for maybe a month, and if after that time they like me and actually had the work, take me on with pay. But perhaps offering maybe £50 a week wouldn't be such a bad idea (£150 is surely too steep)

Being 22 I also feel I have the advantage of being the apprentice age (kind of, haha)? I.e it wouldn't be as awkward for the plumber having to answer questions to, say a 45yr old, ex-city worker....a novelty yes, but not cool.

Any suggestions?

p.s sorry Redsaw that I have taken this post off topic.

 

[fuzzy]

this shows that there is a lack of work for plumbers does it not?

 

[kingm1988]

this shows that there is a lack of work for plumbers does it not?

Agreed. What do you make of my proposal though fuzzy?

 

[fuzzy]

Agreed. What do you make of my proposal though fuzzy?

i think having to pay to get expereince is an absolute joke, a disgrace that the trade finds itself in

 

[Winston]

Interesting the idea of paying to get the experience but sad with it as well. When I did my 6129 I couldnt find anyone to take me on so had to go alone, but have met a few guys who pass work my way and I have paased work on if its beyond my skills or gas work.

I generally then help out with the work so I can learn from it, I also then do some labouring which I then get paid for admittingley not the rate I would like but £15 per hour is better than a kick up the you know what.

But I have also met and made some good local contacts and often we can help one another out even if its to give a hand lifting something into place.

The mates I have met I wish I had done it years ago though concerned that business seems to be getting quiet again

 

[oldplumber]

interesting position the college lads find themselves in now. I had several works experience weeks with different students this year, none of them had apprenticeships and now they have completed their level 2s they cant return and start their level 3s as they need to be employed. Their pay rate is £95/week until they are 19 and then min wage thereafter. Id like to take on an apprentice to help them on their way (competition isnt an issue as theres so many plumbers out there at present and only those with a customer base can survive) However, an apprentice isnt going to pay their way for at least 2 years and i cant afford to pay for someone watching and learning over the next 2 years, so i reckon the government/colleges should look to pay for them to go on the books, otherwise in a few years time the comics will be quoting plumbers earning £100k a year cos they are a shortage trade. Nothing changes!

 

[REDSAW]

how about £175 per week then, must be given 35/40 hours a week training any one interested?.

 

[Dannypipe]

Wish I could, I'm in the south east...plus it's suddenly gone very quiet out there. I have a few more days booked up infront, but normally it's weeks, with other bits and bobs popping up inbetween.

Scary really. A month ago, I was rushed off my feet. I do have three potentially big projects to price, but we all know the difference between quoting and working.

 

[kingm1988]

It would be pretty good if the government could give grants to creditable plumbers to take on trainee's. I guess that would help solve the crisis that they themselves started.

 

[Puddle]

People pay/waste thousands for holidays,cars,few bricks,wedding,designer gear, ect,ect

Way not spend a bit on quality on site,real work situation training that could lead to you having a good income for life

imho

 

[kingm1988]

People pay/waste thousands for holidays,cars,few bricks,wedding,designer gear, ect,ect

Way not spend a bit on quality training that could lead to you having a good income for life

imho

Definitely. I'm certainly considering forking up a bit of cash every week for a plumber to take me on. But maybe not £150, that's surely too steep for someone with no income. Perhaps something like £15 a day.

 

[newbie1]

i fear all you will hear is the sound of laughter offering a guy 15.00 to up his public liability and have risk of problems with his customers if you do something badly

i have been accused of being too negative in the past maybe now some of my critics will understand that the training companies have sold you a near unnatainable dream..they suck you in with a 6129 which is preety basic stuff and dont bother to explain that no one is going to take you on and you are ill prepared financially or skills wise to go self employed
plumbers all have a living to earn now why would anyone in your area who is struggling to earn a living take on a short termer who is infact going to be a likely undercutter of his own prices as soon as possible
sorry for the new guys but you really should have researched your market as hgv driving is a better prospect and cheaper to train

 

[Winston]

But newbie if I am honest I havent done to bad its a struggle sometimes but it is possible. My area seems to be a wash with gas engineers who wouldnt dream of changing taps or blocked drains.

 

[newbie1]

winston for every one who makes it there ir god knows how many who fall by the wayside

 

[Veggie Dave]

I didn't think this would be my first post. Still...

If the 'trainee' isn't allowed to turn up or leave when he wishes, do as much or as little 'work' as he wishes or there isn't a structured training program then, by law, he is entitled to be paid the National Minimum Wage.

The fact he 'volunteered' or is even paying you is irrelevant as far as the law is concerned.

And if HM Revenue & Customs finds out then you'll be in real trouble as you will not only have to pay the person for their time at at least NMW rates but HMR&C will be handing you a nice big fine, too.

 

[Puddle]

I didn't think this would be my first post. Still...

If the 'trainee' isn't allowed to turn up or leave when he wishes, do as much or as little 'work' as he wishes or there isn't a structured training program then, by law, he is entitled to be paid the National Minimum Wage.

The fact he 'volunteered' or is even paying you is irrelevant as far as the law is concerned.

And if HM Revenue & Customs finds out then you'll be in real trouble as you will not only have to pay the person for their time at at least NMW rates but HMR&C will be handing you a nice big fine, too.

Hi Dave

If trainee was paying me,he could turn up as he wants and leave the same,as long as he paid the set contract fee,if a structure training scheme is in place all is well

Is it not he Dept of Employment's concern,not he HM Revenue & Customs

Thought a lot of exception in every law and regulation were training is involved
Not sure of above,just chewing the fat

 

[Bernie2]

Just to think!

The Plumbers, gas fitters and central heating guys all had "No I won't be one of those unless you sentence me!" jobs?

We certainly do need some regulation in the industry. Imagine what is going to happen when all the cuts come in and perhaps millions are out of work?

The game is going to be stacked out and nobody make a reasonable living out of it.

Can we afford to go on like that?

As to employment opportunities how about trainee car mechanics/IT/accountants/solicitors/dentists and so on all trades that should be open like ours.
Just ask the new guys which they would rather be if a career path was open to them in these trades?

Solicitor would be good. You could probably learn things like property conveyance in a short time and open up for yourself charging fixed sums of about £300 a pop for about a couple of hours work.

Which ever way its is, ours seems to be full now.

 

[Veggie Dave]

If trainee was paying me,he could turn up as he wants and leave the same,as long as he paid the set contract fee,if a structure training scheme is in place all is well

In which case you'd be on much safer ground.

Is it not he Dept of Employment's concern,not he HM Revenue & Customs

You would think both would be involved but as it's all about finances/money, it's HMR&C who get involved.

Thought a lot of exception in every law

Indeed, which is why you, as a self-employed plumber, can charge as much or as little as you want. Your plumber's mate, on the other hand, will always be an employee (even if he classes himself as self-employed, a volunteer or a trainee) and therefore not eligible to waive his rights to the NMW.

Of course, many people don't care or are completely ignorant about the law with, unsurprisingly, politicians being some of the worst offenders.

 

[oldplumber]

if he under 19 and an apprentice it £95 / week, then min wage. All the banks etc are now liable for interns who worked for free as they can go to a tribunal and claim for lost wages etc. However, and its a BIG HOWEVER, theyll never get a job in that industry again, so are they going to sue for lost wages.

 

[REDSAW]

so the offer is £175 per week for training. oh. but i want paying min wage with contract n.i and the rest and..............hello..............anyone there?.

oops, back to square one, no training mentor to get through nvq.........
didnt want a job, just watch, help, learn for no financial reward.

your missing the trip chaps.lol

 

[kingm1988]

Well I for one would not have the ordasity to pay a plumber for their time and expertise to then report to the HMR&C that some shoddy plumber put me through 40hrs a week of hard labour and didn't even give me minimum wage. Very cheeky indeed. A good way to earn your money back though eh

But seriously guys, what other option do we, as trainee's have? The government are certainly not going to subsidise plumbers to take us on, especially with all the cuts that have been planned, and especially as the amount of houses to be built over the next few years is currently half the projection. Is there any light at the end of the tunnel? Someone say yes!!