Please help - have i been ripped off?

this type of incompetance by a landlord ..in my experience tends to be the tip of an iceberg,
have you a current landlords and tennants gas safe certificate ? ...show us...are all your smoke alarms ok ? if you are a bona fide landlord then you will have a current inventory produced by an estate agent ..

Its a Calefi inlet control set , not a Honeywell.

townfanjon said:

Its a Calefi inlet control set , not a Honeywell.

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even worse then

Rob Foster said:

this type of incompetance by a landlord ..in my experience tends to be the tip of an iceberg,
have you a current landlords and tennants gas safe certificate ? ...show us...are all your smoke alarms ok ? if you are a bona fide landlord then you will have a current inventory produced by an estate agent ..

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Perhaps, Rob, just perhaps this is not the tip of an iceberg but innocent ignorance. If you read through the posts, the lady says the only reason they moved out was because of a rotten neighbour - we all know that feeling! She also says, without prompting, that she still considers this her home. Perhaps, just perhaps, she is letting privately and has not bothered with parasitic agents who, let's face it add ziltch in any way shape or form and charge the Earth for adding so little. I could recount personal stories of straight up agent corruption here - but I won't.

I totally get where you are coming from and, no doubt like you, have seen the penny pinching scumbag landlords fall flat on their faces - to our great amusement.

Not all though are cut from the same cloth and some landlords, the only ones I ever worked for at least, are caring considerate people who deserve far more than the awful tenants often give them.

Perhaps, once again, we might at least wait till the head enters the noose before kicking away the steps

Rob who?

SimonG said:

Rob who?

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Foster. Clue's in the name Si

It seems Si forgot who's on his ignore list, something we have in common.

missfrances said:

Hi. My house, in north London, has a Sime Superior 100 boiler. Last year I noticed the water pressure was slowly dropping (in all the taps, and the shower), so at the start of December I got a plumber out, who said we needed a new pressure valve for the boiler. I was told the new valve was about £200 ish, and I was charged £498 (inc vat) in total for the work. The plumber came out twice; firstly to diagnose the problem, which he did very quickly, and secondly to bring and fit the new part. I assumed the fitting was complex, but he fitted the part really quickly, in 30-45 minutes, or so. I thought the cost seemed excessive, especially when i saw how quickly it was fitted. Please could someone tell me if I've paid a far price, or if I've been ripped off?! Annoyingly, only a month later, the boiler has stopped working. So my second question is, can I make the plumber come back again and fix it? Thank you. Vic

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In my humble opinion:. Callefi combination valve Screwfix 1610v £35 bit of pipework 20ish 2hrs Labour Cambridge rates £60 for first hour £40 for subsequent top price £200 yes I am G3 to satisfy drama queens!

Michael1960 said:

In my humble opinion:. Callefi combination valve Screwfix 1610v £35 bit of pipework 20ish 2hrs Labour Cambridge rates £60 for first hour £40 for subsequent top price £200 yes I am G3 to satisfy drama queens!

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Why 'drama queens' Michael?

As a householder who is following this thread with interest, am I correct in assuming that where the boiler heats an unvented cylinder the plumber should have a G3 certificate? This is not at all clear from Gas Safe site. Maybe it's there but how far am I supposed to drill down? Where does G3 start and stop?

G3 is NOTHING to do with Gas Safe. It is an entirely different qualification. They have no connection aside from them both being 'plumbing'.

The G3 regs start at the supply to the unvented cylinder and finish at two points: 1 - the safety discharge pipework and 2 - the hot water supply pipework.

Rob Foster said:

oh dear, that prv looks like a honeywell do4 ...the best prv
on the European domestic market , it costs well less than £50.00, micky mouse ones cost
less than £10.00. I cannot remember the spec but I am not sure it should be vertically installed...but others will correct me.
Rob Foster aka centralheatking

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The kink in that prv discharge won’t help either

YorkshireDave said:

Perhaps, Rob, just perhaps this is not the tip of an iceberg but innocent ignorance. If you read through the posts, the lady says the only reason they moved out was because of a rotten neighbour - we all know that feeling! She also says, without prompting, that she still considers this her home. Perhaps, just perhaps, she is letting privately and has not bothered with parasitic agents who, let's face it add ziltch in any way shape or form and charge the Earth for adding so little. I could recount personal stories of straight up agent corruption here - but I won't.

I totally get where you are coming from and, no doubt like you, have seen the penny pinching scumbag landlords fall flat on their faces - to our great amusement.

Not all though are cut from the same cloth and some landlords, the only ones I ever worked for at least, are caring considerate people who deserve far more than the awful tenants often give them.

Perhaps, once again, we might at least wait till the head enters the noose before kicking away the steps

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My old school friend is a surveyer, with lots of work in the private rented sector. Over the past few years (after training) I cover his holidays and eg This week I will visit over a dozen properties. I have to be open minded for each visit. My cynicism is fuelled by high rents charged for a small minority of frankly diabolical rentals, 50/50 landlord and tennants responsibility I see some amateur landlords dabbling in what should be skilled areas trying to grab as much lolly as possible. The comparison between the corporate lets and properties which have professional management and skilled maintenance and the pathetic diy ones is both stunning and immoral, dangerous and verging on theft.
Occassionally I read posts on here which fall into this category. I do not hold back as you know. Rob Foster aka centralheatking

Before you let any tradesman do work for you, get a full understanding of their charges (callout, hourly charge including any minimum charge) and if any parts need replacing have these clearly detailed in advance of paying anything. If that pic is the part you've had replaced, you've been ripped off.

A reputable plumber will be happy to provide the above information to you so you can make an informed choice but unfortunately though, some prey on the customers predicament.

YorkshireDave said:

G3 is NOTHING to do with Gas Safe. It is an entirely different qualification. They have no connection aside from them both being 'plumbing'.

The G3 regs start at the supply to the unvented cylinder and finish at two points: 1 - the safety discharge pipework and 2 - the hot water supply pipework.

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Then what is the unvented that's on Gas Safe please?

Dannyk said:

Then what is the unvented that's on Gas Safe please?

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It's an added competency. A g3 qualification can be added to any competent person scheme.

Apologies for the delay in getting back to you. I started to make some progress with this matter at the end of last week, and I wanted to come back with a decent update. So, first of all, thank you for everyone who helped with this, and provided positive feedback. Thank you especially to Yorkshire Dave. Your long post (explaining the situation clearly) was brilliant, and very well written. If I was in Yorkshire, I'd be taking you for a pint to say thank you! So, quick update....
1. A new plumber visited on Thursday. He pointed out that the flexible hose, fitted in December, was 'not to standard'. This has now been corrected and replaced with copper piping. Please see 3 attached pics, which show the Original set up, the Valve & hose fitted in December (marked image D), and Corrective work with copper piping (image E). I was charged £109 (including vat) for this corrective work, which seemed perfectly reasonable.
2. The new plumber asked me about Gas Safety checks. I can confirm I get a landlords gas safety check every year, without fail, and have always passed. I keep all documentation. The company who carry out this check for me every year is called gas-elec (www.gas-elec.co.uk). I also pay the same company to check our smoke detectors and co alarms.
2. After repeated requests for a breakdown, the original plumbers emailed me last week, and confirmed that they hadn't given me any paperwork, and couldn't provide it.
3. My partner emailed the original plumbers, pointing out the following. That they have a) overcharged for the work, b) provided inaccurate information about what work was carried out, c) carried out the work incorrectly, and d) not provided an invoice. It stated that unless the company reimbursed us for £498, we would issue legal proceedings, and that we would also contact the relevant trade bodies and trade standards organisations regarding the inadequate work (possibly by unqualified persons). The email asked the plumbers to confirm their address for service.
4. The original plumbers called my partner, and admitted that we had been overcharged. They offered a full refund.
5. My partner, being the reasonable chap he is, suggested they refund us £400, on the basis that they did at least install a valve.
6. I have now been refunded £400!

So a good outcome. I realise in future I'm going to have to be more careful about the tradespeople I use, and how I deal with them, however I do have to trust people to a certain extent. I find most tradespeople are decent, honest and straightforward.

Apologies that this story has dragged on, and that I have bored some of you to death. I do appreciate your time and help. Information provided here was very useful.

One final thing. Not all landlords are bad! I do appreciate that there are plenty of dodgy landlords around, who give everyone a bad name, but there are lots just like me, who really care about their properties and want their tenants to be happy.

Dannyk said:

Then what is the unvented that's on Gas Safe please?

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So, in theory, you need G3 or building control sign-off to install a vented cylinder too, even though the level 2 diploma shows you how to do it correctly and safely.

Am I the only one who asks himself what possible advantage there is in requiring a compentent plumber like myself with NVQ 2 to get building control in whenever he changes a cylinder and how many customers will be willing to pay the extra and wait for a BCO visit before I can get their hot water on for them?

Ric2013 said:

So, in theory, you need G3 or building control sign-off to install a vented cylinder too, even though the level 2 diploma shows you how to do it correctly and safely.

Am I the only one who asks himself what possible advantage there is in requiring a compentent plumber like myself with NVQ 2 to get building control in whenever he changes a cylinder and how many customers will be willing to pay the extra and wait for a BCO visit before I can get their hot water on for them?

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You pass your g3, which is not just for unvented, then you can either attach your pass to a competent person scheme, for a fee, or not.
If you attach it to a competent person scheme you can install (providing details of install to building control prior to install), repair and service. The installation part being notifiable through your competent person scheme to building control.
If you don't you can still install by raising a building control notification and having them sign it off on completion. You can still repair and service as well.
Either way the customer will pay. I now need to renew my g3 and will be going via option 2. It will put an extra £255 on any install.

Not too sure if vented is notifiable, wasn't 5 years ago.

missfrances said:

Apologies for the delay in getting back to you. I do appreciate your time and help. Information provided here was very useful.

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MF. Thank you for the update. Glad that UK Plumbers Forum members have been of some use - remind me to point this out to my wife...

The shocking reality is that most trades people are honest and decent. Life however does sometimes conspire against you and you get someone, let's say, opportunistic. TBH, I am amazed at the response of the company you used. I know this will sound distinctly odd, but in your shoes I'd actually be tempted to give them a call and use them, IF they can do it, for your annual unvented cylinder service. Why? Because at that response I'd say it was an anomaly and they would be keen to prove to you that they can do much better.

Keep in touch although not tooo much

Unless I missed something and without reading the whole thread again was it established why the boiler wasn't working originally and was it fixed?

Yorkshire Dave - I most definitely won't be using the original plumbers again! I don't trust them in the slightest. The second plumber, however, is now in my contacts file.

The reason for the surprising response, and fast turnaround of events, is that, after collecting all the facts together (thanks to this forum, and the second plumber), a constructive lawyer friend offered to have a word. He's very charming and friendly, but not someone you would want to take on in a construction dispute! A quick look at his profile would have made them come to their senses. Miraculously, straight after he got involved, my money was returned and the missing invoice appeared.

Sorry, the above should have read construction lawyer.

missfrances said:

Miraculously, straight after he got involved, my money was returned and the missing invoice appeared.

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If he's like the lawyer friend I have, you'll get an invoice for £600 for services rendered on Tuesday...

[QUOTE="Rob Foster, post: 1020992, member:
have you a current landlords and tennants gas safe certificate ? ...show us...are all your smoke alarms ok ? if you are a bona fide landlord then you will have a current inventory produced by an estate agent ..[/QUOTE]

I can`t believe just how rude you were here Rob, demanding the OP show`s us the current gas safe certificate and what has an inventory got to do with the thread plus you are nothing like the old chk you claim to be with your weekly claims of this, that and the other so what changed?