Stopping condensate waste freezing

Vicdiy · Jan 20, 2019

My condensate waste has only frozen up once and caused the boiler to switch off, this was on a particularly cold night. I thought of the following way of stopping the boiler switching off in the event of it freezing up again. The pipe drops out of the boiler vertically and then runs horizontally for about 900mm before it goes through the external wall into the drain. If I was to put a tee in the horizontal run with the branch set at 45 degrees and put a bucket under the tee on very cold nights. If the pipe should freeze up then the condensate would still be able to run out through the tee and the boiler shouldn't then switch off. Does anybody see any problems with this idea

Welder · Jan 20, 2019

Search on here. There are many posts about condensates freezing.

gmartine · Jan 20, 2019

If your condensate runs anywhere near a sink or appliance outlet think about plumbing it internally on a permanent basis. It will save you a world of inconvenience as well as remembering to put the bucket out.

Vicdiy · Jan 20, 2019

gmartine said:
If your condensate runs anywhere near a sink or appliance outlet think about plumbing it internally on a permanent basis. It will save you a world of inconvenience as well as remembering to put the bucket out.

No, it runs in the garage, before it pops through the wall to the outside it runs into a waste from the washing machine so the shared washing machine/ condensate waste pipe runs on the outside before dropping into the drain. My thinking on the bucket is that in 10 years it has only frozen up once so I will only have to remember it when it is really really cold.

Welder · Jan 20, 2019

Vicdiy said:
No, it runs in the garage, before it pops through the wall to the outside it runs into a waste from the washing machine so the shared washing machine/ condensate waste pipe runs on the outside before dropping into the drain. My thinking on the bucket is that in 10 years it has only frozen up once so I will only have to remember it when it is really really cold.

If it's only frozen once then you may well 'get away with' insulating it 'properly'. So, use a nitrile based insulation like Armaflex (25mm wall thickness) and properly glue ALL joints. Leave NO part uninsulated and remember to compress each length by 10-15% when you fit it so it doesn't pull apart. DO NOT, tape or zip tie it. If you're tempted then I'd not bother even starting. The armaflex site has some great resources for how to do it properly.

Scott_D · Jan 20, 2019

The open drain will smell

Vicdiy · Jan 20, 2019

scott_d said:
The open drain will smell

It's sealed, it drops into a rodding eye cover that has been drilled and sealed.

Scott_D · Jan 20, 2019

Vicdiy said:
It's sealed, it drops into a rodding eye cover that has been drilled and sealed.

The tee you cut in will be open

Rob Foster · Jan 20, 2019

Vicdiy said:
My condensate waste has only frozen up once and caused the boiler to switch off, this was on a particularly cold night. I thought of the following way of stopping the boiler switching off in the event of it freezing up again. The pipe drops out of the boiler vertically and then runs horizontally for about 900mm before it goes through the external wall into the drain. If I was to put a tee in the horizontal run with the branch set at 45 degrees and put a bucket under the tee on very cold nights. If the pipe should freeze up then the condensate would still be able to run out through the tee and the boiler shouldn't then switch off. Does anybody see any problems with this idea

Condensate outflow is for building regulations etc. considered as a flue and as such only gsr fitters should work on this area and all components and modifications be approved
Rob Foster aka centralheatking

Vicdiy · Jan 20, 2019

scott_d said:
The tee you cut in will be open

There is a trap on the waste before it goes outside so the open tee wouldn't be a problem.

Welder · Jan 20, 2019

Rob Foster said:
Condensate outflow is for building regulations etc. considered as a flue and as such only gsr fitters should work on this area and all components and modifications be approved
Rob Foster aka centralheatking

Wow. Never knew that. Thank you Rob.

king of pipes · Jan 21, 2019

Easy way to stop freezing is fit a trace heating kit and lag up the pipework . Kop

Rob Foster · Jan 21, 2019

Condensermate ....coming to a merchants near you soon, just got to find a manufacturer first.
I am building up a brand....Top Up Mate, Condensermate, combimate..(not mine) centralheatking

Rob Foster · Jan 21, 2019

Vicdiy said:
There is a trap on the waste before it goes outside so the open tee wouldn't be a problem.

Wrong, the trap must be inside or immediately at boiler in order to be safe, condensate is considered as a flue so thats like saying the internal section of a flue does not matter until it gets outside. Rob Foster aka centralheatking

Rob Foster · Jan 21, 2019

king of pipes said:
Easy way to stop freezing is fit a trace heating kit and lag up the pipework . Kop

View attachment 36491

Teddington Systems do a belting one. Rob Foster aka centralheatking

Riley · Jan 21, 2019

Vicdiy said:
There is a trap on the waste before it goes outside so the open tee wouldn't be a problem.

There’s no logic to what you say there. All the same as Rob pertained to it is part of the flueingof the boiler and as such is not for DiY or modification

fixitflav · Jan 21, 2019

Are we talking about the same trap here? There's the one inside the boiler (which AFAIK all condensing boilers have) and one which might be installed downstream to prevent smells from the drain. As the outlet from the boiler trap is allowed to go into an open tundish I don't see why pipework after that point is part of the flue. But I could be wrong.

Ric2013 · Jan 21, 2019

Vicdiy said:
My condensate waste has only frozen up once and caused the boiler to switch off, this was on a particularly cold night. I thought of the following way of stopping the boiler switching off in the event of it freezing up again. The pipe drops out of the boiler vertically and then runs horizontally for about 900mm before it goes through the external wall into the drain. If I was to put a tee in the horizontal run with the branch set at 45 degrees and put a bucket under the tee on very cold nights. If the pipe should freeze up then the condensate would still be able to run out through the tee and the boiler shouldn't then switch off. Does anybody see any problems with this idea

Put an access plug on the tee?

polypipe-50-mm-black-screwed-access-plug-solvent-black_min_11865_P_1.jpg

To be frank, it sounds to me like an idea that can be described as 'stupid, but it works' and I'm quite impressed actually. If you're happy to manage the workaround and empty the bucket, I'm thinking go for it.

My only concern would be that, as the tee is internal, you would get blasts of cold air coming into the house via the tee and possibly drain smells also. Might be possible to put a running trap on the internal horizontal waste run after the tee to prevent these occurrences?

[EDIT - but if Rob Foster's right about the legality of the matter, then it might be better to wait until the gas installers have had their say before making a decision].

david stanton · Jan 21, 2019

can you use this and get your 'engineer' to attache it on next service visit for £10, 20, 30, 1000 etc?
https://www.NoLinkingToThis/p/mcalpine-condensate-pipe-clamp/3101v

Rob Foster · Jan 21, 2019

david stanton said:
can you use this and get your 'engineer' to attache it on next service visit for £10, 20, 30, 1000 etc?
https://www.NoLinkingToThis/p/mcalpine-condensate-pipe-clamp/3101v

If the boiler has no internal trap then this component will not be safe in my opinion as it might vent naughty gas inside the building....which is what all the legislation is about oreventing. centralheatking

Ric2013 · Jan 21, 2019

Rob Foster said:
If the boiler has no internal trap then this component will not be safe in my opinion as it might vent naughty gas inside the building....which is what all the legislation is about oreventing. centralheatking

Hold on. Is it illegal for him to work on the waste pipe if the boiler does have its own trap? And can you link us to an authoritative website explaining the legislation as this is starting to make me think that this rule means a non Gas-Safe plumber won't be able to work on pretty much any waste pipe if this is the case, given that nearly all waste systems are ultimately interlinked.

david stanton · Jan 21, 2019

add a tundish on the condensate pipe just above the 90 bend into the clamp?
https://www.NoLinkingToThis/p/mcalpine-tundish-19-23-x-19-23mm/5684v#_=p

Riley · Jan 21, 2019

I think what it will be down to is pretty much the same as why we don’t encourage people to take covers of boilers some of them form combustion seals some of them don’t the same way that some boilers have traps and some of them don’t. I think to err on the side of caution is a sensible approach

Ric2013 · Jan 21, 2019

Riley said:
I think what it will be down to is pretty much the same as why we don’t encourage people to take covers of boilers some of them form combustion seals some of them don’t the same way that some boilers have traps and some of them don’t. I think to err on the side of caution is a sensible approach

No good to me. I'm a non-gas plumber so if I'm asked to work on an above-ground drainage system that incorporates a condensate pipe I need to know whether I'm legally allowed to or not. If I err on the side of caution and refuse to do so without good reason then I've just lost my business.

fixitflav · Jan 21, 2019

Ric2013 said:
No good to me. I'm a non-gas plumber so if I'm asked to work on an above-ground drainage system that incorporates a condensate pipe I need to know whether I'm legally allowed to or not. If I err on the side of caution and refuse to do so without good reason then I've just lost my business.

Agreed. Nobody's given a straight answer to my #17.

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Stopping condensate waste freezing

Vicdiy

Welder

gmartine

Vicdiy

Welder

Scott_D

Vicdiy

Scott_D

Rob Foster

Vicdiy

Welder

king of pipes

Rob Foster

Rob Foster

Rob Foster

Riley

Plumbers Arms member

fixitflav

Ric2013

Plumbers Arms member

david stanton

Rob Foster

Ric2013

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david stanton

Riley

Plumbers Arms member

Ric2013

Plumbers Arms member

fixitflav

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