Come on chaps, chill out. People have differences of opinions. Surely we can let people say what they think without it upsetting us. Sad to see 2 great contributers to the forum quarrelling
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There is no need at all to make it personal jules, you do seem to have a anger problem. I don't know how else to try to show that I have nothing against good engineers who enter the industry other than via the traditional route, indeed that seems to be your particular hobby horse, not mine.prob because you got a chip on your shoulder against anyone who hasn't done a timeserved apprenticeship
and secondly its none of your business. i don't have to prove anything to you. I've done my acs and had my inspections from gas safe and passed with flying colours. i've proved my competence to the people that count and thats not you, so you can moan all you want it's not you that make the rules you sanctimonious PRATT.:32: until you prove your the offspring of the messiah stop judging people and get on with your life. people like you make me so angry.
My interest in this thread is why we are told that a category 2 (one holding an NVQ) gas candidate has to show 70+ day's before they are allowed to sit CCN1, is this the same for those paying a training company to go on site & work along side GSR? The fee's charged would suggest not & just because some then go on & pass & get GSR does not make it right.
P
Paul smiler
Hello I am new on here but I did my time with BG and we had some great engineers at north thames beckton/east ham but we also had some very dodgy ones and we all new who they were and went behind them cleaning their mess up, when I left I thought BG fitters were the best and they normally are or were in 1997 but I found some great engineers out there that were really interested in the gas industry without having the BG apprenticeship.
Sorry if I have any spelling mistakes as I have been living in Spain for the last 15 years and don`t normally talk in english.
:banghead:
Sorry if I have any spelling mistakes as I have been living in Spain for the last 15 years and don`t normally talk in english.
:banghead:
Hi Paul
Welcome to the forum it's nice to have another international contributor on the books. Your spelling is good, indeed better than mine but that's not difficult.
As you say good & bad engineers across the board, are you working with gas in Spain ?
Welcome to the forum it's nice to have another international contributor on the books. Your spelling is good, indeed better than mine but that's not difficult.
As you say good & bad engineers across the board, are you working with gas in Spain ?
P
Paul smiler
Hello Chris, when I came to Spain I started as a wood laborer because I only had gcse spanish but then I worked as a plumber for three months but as everything goes with the contacts you have I was offered a job as a telecoms installer via my girlfriends side of the family and have been in telecoms ever since, but I still miss the gas fitting in England as it`s a lot different here. I would PD the majority as we said back in 97.
Jobs are a bit dodgy here at the moment so was thinking about going back next year but only on extreme circumstances. Its lovely here in Spain but I can`t stand the hot weather in july and august.
Jobs are a bit dodgy here at the moment so was thinking about going back next year but only on extreme circumstances. Its lovely here in Spain but I can`t stand the hot weather in july and august.
J
julesverne
My interest in this thread is why we are told that a category 2 (one holding an NVQ) gas candidate has to show 70+ day's before they are allowed to sit CCN1, is this the same for those paying a training company to go on site & work along side GSR? The fee's charged would suggest not & just because some then go on & pass & get GSR does not make it right.
maybe we should round the all engineers up who haven't done 70 days and have them shot at dawn by firing squad.
J
julesverne
because thats aimed at kids not grown adults who already have a lot of work experience out in the big bad worldMy interest in this thread is why we are told that a category 2 (one holding an NVQ) gas candidate has to show 70+ day's before they are allowed to sit CCN1, is this the same for those paying a training company to go on site & work along side GSR? The fee's charged would suggest not & just because some then go on & pass & get GSR does not make it right.
Now I am getting bored, you don't know what you are talking about, the minimum number of on-site training hour applies to anyone whatever there age. Now go & have a lie down & chill cos I am out of here.Thread is going round in circles. My last post on the subject.
[DLMURL]http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/stress-anxiety-depression/Pages/controlling-anger.aspxhttp[/DLMURL]
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J
julesverne
Now I am getting bored, you don't know what you are talking about, the minimum number of on-site training hour applies to anyone whatever there age. Now go & have a lie down & chill cos I am out of here.
[DLMURL]http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/stress-anxiety-depression/Pages/controlling-anger.aspxhttp[/DLMURL]
Sweet
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B
Barry98
take a chill pilL or ill intervene - SIMPLES
D
Dotty
:chillpill: :chillpill:
Here you go. one each.
Here you go. one each.
I didnt count my portfolio in days, just submitted a load of jobs with photos and cp12s, realistically though it was probably way more than 70 days, I didnt pay to do the portfolio though, call me old fashioned but there is no way id pay to go to work,
K
kirkgas
A CAT 2 ( time served plumber or associated trade) can do a " Foundation course" of 6 weeks full time theory and " a reasonable amount of time building a suitable portfolio" there are guidelines but it depends on what work actually gets done, a good example is one candidate working with a service engineer they could get through 40 jobs in a week, the next guy work with an installer on 4 large installs over 2 weeks,
Who has the better portfolio ?
Most CAT 2's do 6-8 weeks full time placement building the portfolio, (spread over as long as it takes, ) they don't need to do 70 days, no where near it.
One way to do it is to cut the portfolio building to just cover ccn1, once passed they are competent and can return to the assessment centre as a CAT 1 and do some revision training and sit the specialist subjects.
I've trained many CAT 2 and CAT 3 ( who do 6 months full time 50/50 split between theory and practical ) and some are good, some reasonable and some bad, same as the CAT 1's who are qualified and working in the trade, I think a lot of it is to do with the individuals experience but also to do with their attitude to learning and how safe they want to be.
How hard is it to learn gas? The answer will upset some of you, not very hard at all and that's the truth, some of these guys enter the gas industry from far more difficult jobs and learn it easy, fault finding and repairs is a different thing all together, but there are 100's of house bashes trying to fix boilers at the moment and making a complete hash of it as well, but basic gas servicing can be taught to nearly anyone, as I said its all down to how well they want to leave a job when they are out on their own,
I'm a plumber to trade and had worked on plenty heating jobs on the wet side, I was offered a 5 day ACOPS course by my company, went to college and passed,my ACOPS with no previous has experience, and I ain't the cleverest but I worked damn hard to learn things after I got my chert and NEVER took a chance with anything getting left unsafe, because I care and have the right attitude, like many others, so as I'm not time served in gas should I be excluded?
Who has the better portfolio ?
Most CAT 2's do 6-8 weeks full time placement building the portfolio, (spread over as long as it takes, ) they don't need to do 70 days, no where near it.
One way to do it is to cut the portfolio building to just cover ccn1, once passed they are competent and can return to the assessment centre as a CAT 1 and do some revision training and sit the specialist subjects.
I've trained many CAT 2 and CAT 3 ( who do 6 months full time 50/50 split between theory and practical ) and some are good, some reasonable and some bad, same as the CAT 1's who are qualified and working in the trade, I think a lot of it is to do with the individuals experience but also to do with their attitude to learning and how safe they want to be.
How hard is it to learn gas? The answer will upset some of you, not very hard at all and that's the truth, some of these guys enter the gas industry from far more difficult jobs and learn it easy, fault finding and repairs is a different thing all together, but there are 100's of house bashes trying to fix boilers at the moment and making a complete hash of it as well, but basic gas servicing can be taught to nearly anyone, as I said its all down to how well they want to leave a job when they are out on their own,
I'm a plumber to trade and had worked on plenty heating jobs on the wet side, I was offered a 5 day ACOPS course by my company, went to college and passed,my ACOPS with no previous has experience, and I ain't the cleverest but I worked damn hard to learn things after I got my chert and NEVER took a chance with anything getting left unsafe, because I care and have the right attitude, like many others, so as I'm not time served in gas should I be excluded?
It's a bit mad the petulant arguments on here sometimes. I think some people on here can be a bit dismissive and harsh, this is only my opinion, I don't think Chris was dismissive of fast trackers at all. As stated no one is doubting Deans experience and calibre, and we all know not everyone time served is a good tradesman and not every fast tracker is a numpty. However, if you are for one minute suggesting that a fast track course done in a much shorter period of time with less hands on experience, less one to one time with a mentor will generally produce a better tradesman than an apprenticeship, you are plain wrong.
I have done both, an apprenticeship and a fast track course, and there is only 1 winner.
I have done both, an apprenticeship and a fast track course, and there is only 1 winner.
E
Ermintrude
We have 3 apprentices. 2 are doing c&g at different places. Frankly they have the information some where. one lad who just started as last place went **** up and is in final year and was expecting us to sign witness statements and have his collage come and witness him witnessing us work...., couldn't manage a TT!!! He's supposed to be registered in 10 weeks! Other hand level 3 bod been working with fitters for 2.5 years done TT from day two and knows regs inside out, can fault find and install, hasn't been near c&g! He's pretty good at collecting elson tanks too!
Some collage stuff is pretty pointless , how many domestic jobs do you clamp pipe benders in a bench vice? Swaged many tubes? Only use on ac pipe work!
I wouldn't recommend full time apprenticeship, day release and no making tea or sweeping up! I'll stand about apprentices can do work..... Mistakes are a gift.... You learn lots from them. One of our fitters makes young lads just stand about.. Get in, get your hands black and make some hilarious mistakes. Like cutting carpet up to patch in holes from warm air , then go looking for hall way carpet...... Come back with tail between legs!
Some collage stuff is pretty pointless , how many domestic jobs do you clamp pipe benders in a bench vice? Swaged many tubes? Only use on ac pipe work!
I wouldn't recommend full time apprenticeship, day release and no making tea or sweeping up! I'll stand about apprentices can do work..... Mistakes are a gift.... You learn lots from them. One of our fitters makes young lads just stand about.. Get in, get your hands black and make some hilarious mistakes. Like cutting carpet up to patch in holes from warm air , then go looking for hall way carpet...... Come back with tail between legs!
P
Paul smiler
we had day release and manual courses with the bays made up as if in a house and the teacher used to act as if he was the worst type of customer and we had to be polite whilst always doing our checks, they showed us how to take a boiler apart and put it back together again and then explained every part inside and out, we did gas escapes to domestic and commercial boilers , cookers and fires that way and also we could ask which fitters to go with because they nearly all wanted us especially the ones on SDS. Time served is a great experience and you learn a lot .
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