Advice on smart thermostat/RF

[bettyflo]

Hi
I am looking into new controls for my soon to be installed new combi boiler.
1- I do not have the internet so I need a kit that also works on RF
2- I want to have the option to add smart valves in the future (if I get the internet, or can some work on RF?).
3- It would be good to have a kit that monitors my energy consumption, without needing the internet to operate.
I look at Hive, EvoHome, Tado, Lyric, Wiser etc but they all seem to require an internet connection at set up stage.
Any advice please? Many thanks

 

[Chalked]

Hi
What does the gas safe engineer who is fitting it say?
New rules were brought in ,regarding boiler plus. in April for combi boilers.

 

[bettyflo]

Hi
What does the gas safe engineer who is fitting it say?
New rules were brought in ,regarding boiler plus. in April for combi boilers.

1- Despite providing me with a quote (ex controls), he's not answering his phone or replying to my emails and text. That's why I need to post here to get some help. He asked me to look at controls myself to see what I'd like and then he'd fit them.

2- I am aware/I have heard of the new rules, hence I am asking for advice so I buy the right controls.

 

[Harvest Fields]

I would get another engineer in that could give you want you need as a complete package.

 

[bettyflo]

I would get another engineer in that could give you want you need as a complete package.

Easier said than done. I already have 4 quotes and 3 with companies that only supply what they want to supply and do not give me the choice and I am facing sales guys who do not really understand the differences between each of the controls that I have mentioned anyway. My last quote was outrageously expensive, the guy was bullshitting me for 1 hour. I came here to seek advice from people, but it looks like I am not going to get it either

 

[Gasmk1]

you will need internet for smart controls

 

[Harvest Fields]

I as a sole trader wouldn’t fit a thermostat on a system that has just been fitted due to the fact the engineer that fitted the system should be doing everything. If he cannot tell you the information you desire to know. He/they are the wrong engineer/company. Find someone that can give you the information as otherwise you will probably be disappointed with the rest of the install also. This IS my professional advice to you.

 

[bettyflo]

you will need internet for smart controls

I spoke to Hive yesterday and they said I do not need the internet for their product (Hive) to function. Of course without the internet, I will not have all the functionalities the device offers, but Hive does not require internet to be set up (unlike other devises like Wiser), and it will still allow to set up times for the heating to come on, just like any other "non-smart" controls.

 

[bettyflo]

I as a sole trader wouldn’t fit a thermostat on a system that has just been fitted due to the fact the engineer that fitted the system should be doing everything. If he cannot tell you the information you desire to know. He/they are the wrong engineer/company. Find someone that can give you the information as otherwise you will probably be disappointed with the rest of the install also. This IS my professional advice to you.

I understand what you're saying. The engineer told me to choose the controls I want and he will fit them when he comes to change my boiler. He's gas safe, Valliant and Worcester Bosch recommended installer.
He might be on holiday hence he's not replying to me. So in the meantime, I am looking for information any way I can.

 

[Harvest Fields]

Ok. Just so you I know. I believe hive need the internet to be compliant for the weather analysis part.

 

[bettyflo]

Ok. Just so you I know. I believe hive need the internet to be compliant for the weather analysis part.

Indeed you are correct. But Hive can work as boiler controls without the internet, though I would loose the weather control and other functionalities such as using the app or obtaining my gas usage on a nice chart. Nest and Wiser need the internet to work and as soon as you take it out of the box, you need to connect them to the web, making them useless if you don't have an internet connection.

The whole point of my post is to find smart controls that work without the internet. I don't have the internet at present,and can't have it for a while. However I still need to be able to have controls that work with my "soon to be fitted" new boiler. I don't want to buy non-smart/traditional controls now, only to change them for smart ones in 3months.

 

[Chuck]

These days the phrase 'smart controls' pretty much means 'internet connected'.

I suspect that what you are looking for are the previous generation of wireless programmer-thermostats that were not internet connected. I quite like Honeywell myself, e.g. their Sundial system or something based around the CM900 series.

You should also keep in mind that if you create a set of constraints that are too unusual, e.g. 'smart controls but no internet', you won't find a solution because no manufacturer is interested in supplying a market of one person.

 

[Harvest Fields]

Hive is not compliant if not connected to the internet. (He cannot fit t for you). Look at the honeywell t4r

 

[ShaunCorbs]

If you have no internet no point in getting an internet stat what boiler you looking at ?

 

[Murdoch]

Delay the boiler change until you have internet connections in place?

 

[bettyflo]

These days the phrase 'smart controls' pretty much means 'internet connected'.

I suspect that what you are looking for are the previous generation of wireless programmer-thermostats that were not internet connected. I quite like Honeywell myself, e.g. their Sundial system or something based around the CM900 series.

Chuck, I am not looking for traditional RF style controls.I am looking for smart controls that for now can function like the previous generation(as you call it) until I can get the internet.
I know smart means connected to the internet.
I did look at Honeywell CMT927 kit 3 years ago when I was going to keep a systems boiler with the water tanks. I am not having a combi, so no point in the 2 channel controls.

 

[bettyflo]

Delay the boiler change until you have internet connections in place?

Ah ah Murdoch...it might take a year before I get the internet. My constraints are what they are I am afraid.

 

[bettyflo]

Hive is not compliant if not connected to the internet. (He cannot fit t for you). Look at the honeywell t4r

The guys at Hive did not say their product is NOT compliant if not connected to the internet. Are you sure? There is no law saying a thermostat must be connected to the internet, is there? Or why would there stil be RF controls? Can you elaborate on your point please?
The Honeywell T4R is RF only, so I'd have to change the controls in a few months time.... so not ideal

 

[bettyflo]

If you have no internet no point in getting an internet stat what boiler you looking at ?

ShaunCorbs, I am looking at Vaillant Eco.fit pure.825. or maybe the Vaillant Eco.Tec plus 825 (but it's bigger and will be a tight sqeeze into exiting kitchen cupboard)

 

[bettyflo]

Chuck, I am not looking for traditional RF style controls.I am looking for smart controls that for now can function like the previous generation(as you call it) until I can get the internet.
I know smart means connected to the internet.
I did look at Honeywell CMT927 kit 3 years ago when I was going to keep a systems boiler with the water tanks. I am now having a combi, so no point in the 2 channel controls.

 

[Harvest Fields]

The guys at Hive did not say their product is NOT compliant if not connected to the internet. Are you sure? There is no law saying a thermostat must be connected to the internet, is there? Or why would there stil be RF controls? Can you elaborate on your point please?
The Honeywell T4R is RF only, so I'd have to change the controls in a few months time.. so not ideal

By taking away the Internet from the Hive you are taking away the weather comp capability. You can have a hive but need to put in place External weather comp controls.

 

[bettyflo]

By taking away the Internet from the Hive you are taking away the weather comp capability. You can have a hive but need to put in place External weather comp controls.

HarvestFields, I see. thank you for your explanation. I will email my engineer!

 

[djchristoff]

825 is only a small output boiler, what size house / how many bedroom and bathrooms do you have?

 

[bettyflo]

825 is only a small output boiler, what size house / how many bedroom and bathrooms do you have?

1 have a flat: 2 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, 1 lounge.
I don't heat the bedrooms, or the Hallway. So only 4 out of 7 radiators are on. Then 1 shower is electric, so effectively only the main bathroom is linked to the boiler.
the 825 is what the plumber recommends, and my corrent boiler is a Potterton suprima 40l which is sufficient.

 

[djchristoff]

825 is way too small. doesn't matter if you only have 4 out of 7 rads on at any one time, your plumber needs to calculate for the house and not just for you. 825 is suitable for a 1 bed/1 bath flat, you need the 830 or even better the 835. I prefer the ecotoc plus, its a bigger boiler and has SS heat exchanger and has been around for years and reliable. ecofit pure is relatively new but I fit them as they have a rear flue outlet which is very handy and they fit in a kitchen cupboard very nicely. They have a cast aluminium heat exchanger but as long as the system is flushed properly and chemically treated you shouldn't have any problems.