AR on flue from multiple GSR engineers. Customer taking the mike!!

[Pongo]

A recent first time customer who are family friends called me to fix a boiler fault which I did. During my visit I noted several NCS and an AR fault on the flue installation. A notice was issued and an estimate for given.

I saw the customer last night and while chatting I dropped in the question of the Notice on the flue, asking he had forgiven me yet for issuing it. I was shocked to learn from him that several engineers had put AR notices on it! It seems he is making fools of us by not sorting the original problem and hiding the fault.

What can you do and where would you stand if you get caught out by one of these numpties?

 

[DaveTidy]

A recent first time customer who are family friends called me to fix a boiler fault which I did. During my visit I noted several NCS and an AR fault on the flue installation. A notice was issued and an estimate for given.

I saw the customer last night and while chatting I dropped in the question of the Notice on the flue, asking he had forgiven me yet for issuing it. I was shocked to learn from him that several engineers had put AR notices on it! It seems he is making fools of us by not sorting the original problem and hiding the fault.

What can you do and where would you stand if you get caught out by one of these numpties?

I'd take advice from Gas Safe in this instance as at least you will have the correct stance when it crops up again.

 

[lambchop]

Surely it would have been cheaper to sort the problem out than paying for several engineers call out fees...

 

[Pongo]

I'd take advice from Gas Safe in this instance as at least you will have the correct stance when it crops up again.

Thanks, I'll get touch with them tomorrow.

 

[wetdrip]

You should have fixed all, not just the boiler fault, and charged him accordingly.

 

[Destroyer2813]

A recent first time customer who are family friends called me to fix a boiler fault which I did. During my visit I noted several NCS and an AR fault on the flue installation. A notice was issued and an estimate for given.

I saw the customer last night and while chatting I dropped in the question of the Notice on the flue, asking he had forgiven me yet for issuing it. I was shocked to learn from him that several engineers had put AR notices on it! It seems he is making fools of us by not sorting the original problem and hiding the fault.

What can you do and where would you stand if you get caught out by one of these numpties?

You've already covered yourself already by issuing the notice with him signing it you can't fix stupid*as they say

 

[Pongo]

Surely it would have been cheaper to sort the problem out than paying for several engineers call out fees...

The call outs weren't for flue problems but noisy boiler and central heating faults! The flue faults were spotted by bei ng thorough and eagle eyed.

 

[Pongo]

You should have fixed all, not just the boiler fault, and charged him accordingly.

I would have loved to but wife at home with the same old line " I'll have to check with my husdand first".
Strange really as its usually the ladies that call you out in the first place to sort things out !!!

 

[kirkgas]

Keep your signed, dated warning notice nice and safe, it's your get out of jail card, and all you can do it advise them there is a risk of one of their family members maybe getting injured, if people don't want to take my expert opinion to save their family there's nothing I can do about it, the only time I take it any further is if I'm sure the customer can't understand me for whatever reason, then I try to pass the warning onto someone else to help them

 

[lambchop]

A recent first time customer who are family friends called me to fix a boiler fault which I did. During my visit I noted several NCS and an AR fault on the flue installation. A notice was issued and an estimate for given.

I saw the customer last night and while chatting I dropped in the question of the Notice on the flue, asking he had forgiven me yet for issuing it. I was shocked to learn from him that several engineers had put AR notices on it! It seems he is making fools of us by not sorting the original problem and hiding the fault.

What can you do and where would you stand if you get caught out by one of these numpties?

the only fool is himself mate, I always take a photo of the signed ar notice stuck on the boiler at an angle so you can see the gas cock is isolated, invoice him stating that notice has been issued and why.

Get paid, if he calls again with any further issues with said boiler. I would get it confirmed via e mail that unless he agrees to get the fault rectified by me or another rgi I won't step across his threshold again.

 

[stevetheplumber]

do you have to turn the iso of with an AR? From what ive read you only have to turn the appliance off

 

[kirkgas]

When training people for ACS, I always advised that for AR you turn off the appliance the way the customer does, it's not wrong to turn gas or power off, just ensure you don't end up creating another problem, by not testing gas after you mess with valves etc

 

[Millsy 82]

As long as I have my warning notice signed by them and a photo of the boiler with a warning notice on it I'm happy.

If the customer wants to carry on using it then it is at there own risk, I have explained what is wrong with it and they make there own decision off that.

I come across a lot of I clipped flues on 10-15 year old boilers, that is AR but they have never come apart in the 10-15 years so I AR explain to them, give them a price to fix or turn off if they let me and leave. If they ask me to go back and do something else then I do the same again, it means filling out a warning notice every time but I have covered myself.

 

[lambchop]

When training people for ACS, I always advised that for AR you turn off the appliance the way the customer does, it's not wrong to turn gas or power off, just ensure you don't end up creating another problem, by not testing gas after you mess with valves etc

i am due for reassessment next year and have always done this, turn off at the apps gas cock. If it's not wrong as you say, I would prefer to carry on doing this. Will check with my assessor before getting assessed next year.

Not everyone pays attention to big bold important notices :blush5:

 

[kirkgas]

Lambchop turning off the gas probably won't cause an issue, I just relate it to guys saying "they blow the pilot out etc" but that means they should check the thermo electric valve is closed, and they don't, but if it's off at the ISO then it's fine, but if it's say a pedestal at a fire and you turn it off there you should/must check it is gas tight, so turning it off as per customer is fine by me, your assessor will/should direct you to the IUP where it tells you about procedures and what you should do

 

[Millsy 82]

i am due for reassessment next year and have always done this, turn off at the apps gas cock. If it's not wrong as you say, I would prefer to carry on doing this. Will check with my assessor before getting assessed next year.

Not everyone pays attention to big bold important notices :blush5:

I used to isolate the gas until I subbed for bg where I got an absolute grilling for doing this. All you should do is isolate by customer controls, warning label and warning notice then away you go. If the customer is happy for you to take it that extra step then that's not a problem.

 

[lambchop]

I always ask permission but I honestly can't remember if I done that at my last assessment nearly 5 years ago or it's the voices in my head telling me. I will give up this bad habit lads that and smoking

 

[newcastle phill]

Any update from pongo.
Did he get in touch with GS.
I turned off 2 DFE in same house other day. Was only there for a boiler service as well..ohh dear was I popular

I take a photo of them and email them to my business email and backup email

 

[GrahamM]

As long as you follow the rules/regs and have a paper trail you are covered. You do not need to fix/repair an AR situation if not being paid to etc.
As for isolating gas on an AR issue, that is incorrect and as far as I am concerned you are not working to the regs. It is quite clear....you only turn off the appliance. Not isolate it!

 

[stevetheplumber]

the way i see it is you know they are going to turn it back on the minute your gone so why leave them with the potential to bugger it up they might only turn the valve half on or it may leak when its turned on again its ok to say your arse is covered by the paper trail but do you want to have a day in court proving you did the right thing and six months of sleepless nights waiting for the court case

 

[kirkgas]

GrahamM have a read through the IUP it clearly tells you when encountering an AR situation that it should be turned off, below is the description of turn off from the IUP

Turn off
To isolate the appliance using controls accessible to the gas user e.g. turn off using a multifunctional valve to extinguish a pilot; turn appliance control to off position.

 

[GrahamM]

GrahamM have a read through the IUP it clearly tells you when encountering an AR situation that it should be turned off, below is the description of turn off from the IUP

Turn off
To isolate the appliance using controls accessible to the gas user e.g. turn off using a multifunctional valve to extinguish a pilot; turn appliance control to off position.

Why don't you have another read of my post!
Other posts mention isolating the gas for an 'AR' situation. I state that this is generally incorrect and all that is required is to "turn off" appliance. With permission of course!

 

[kirkgas]

Graham as you said all that is needed is to turn off, I quoted the description from IUP which states how it can be turned off at valve, therefore people are correct to ISO at the gas valve if they wish,