Brand new Baxi boiler

[cheru-uk]

This installation is a gas safe registered company with a website .Person who came to give the quote looked experienced.On the day of installation it was another guy who turned up and I do think he is incompetent.
Boiler mate is 7 years old, may die soon. I have been told because boilermate has heating inside it is not compatible with system boilers. Thank you for your comments

 

[Dotty]

Ask to see their gsr cards before you let them do any work in your house. And don't be fobbed off with any excuses.

 

[Ray Stafford]

A proper merchant would accept an open box back from a regular customer.

Only if there was no other solution, and I definitely would NOT take back an open box from a customer I didn't know well. Too much danger that they have switched some part or other, or have just fannied with it, making it either not work, or worse still, dangerous.

The boiler will be returned to the manufacturer,

May well not be a manufacturers problem, but almost all of them will not hesitate to take it back if it is returned by any of the merchants the supply to. It will be suicidal not to take it back.

A few years ago, maybe. These days a merchant has exactly zero chance of returning a boiler to a mainstream manufacturer under these circumstances.

 

[Ray Stafford]

To the OP - you need to lower your target price mate.

As soon as the box is open, your boiler is 2nd hand. You may know that it hasn't been used, or that the PCB hasn't been swapped out, but the buyer can't be certain.

 

[Killy Bing]

Imho a competent installer could have worked whatever boiler you got into the system one way or another no matter the set up, there is a solution.

however getting a competent installer such as that you wont be able to get one unless seriously lucky until after new years.

or you could get a new installer such as myself and take a chance

 

[village idiot]

dont think you know the retail trade that well!

Youre quite right I do not.
Mine thing I can tell you. If I buy a boiler from my local Plumbase where I buy a majority if my boilers, or from MDS where I buy Baxi Avanta Exclusive (only because its only stocked by Independent merchants), I'll have no problem whatsoever returning it. And that is a fact. I do not k is where you source your materials, but I know I have no difficulty returning my parts/materials if they're not what I want. Intact, I've had situations where I have bought two boilers (Ideal logic +) from Plumbase but it soon became obvious that one of the customers will present a problem. I simply returned one a week later.
The law is straight forward. You have the right to return something if it is not fit for purpose. Even if you had fitted the boiler, and are willing to put in the extra labour hours by removing it and returning it to the merchant, they will give you a replacement and send boiler back to the manufacturer. What have they lost? Just a bit of inconvenience and paperwork involved. The Internet is a different ball game. I refuse to buy from there as there is even no guarantee you'll be getting what you ordered. Chances are they'll sell you a fake replica from China.

 

[Kev the gas]

The law is straight forward !!!!

The custard bought the wrong boiler. Fact
The alleged Gsr opened the box before reading the outside of the box.


Why should the retailer take back the boiler ????

Fit for purpose ?? It is just not in this house !

 

[Leo21]

What are the long distance selling rules Ray?
To the OP, sometimes trying to save a few quid can cost you. Don't be so tight next time, good will from an engineer is worth it's weight in gold.

 

[stevetheplumber]

youre quite right i do not.
Mine thing i can tell you. If i buy a boiler from my local plumbase where i buy a majority if my boilers, or from mds where i buy baxi avanta exclusive (only because its only stocked by independent merchants), i'll have no problem whatsoever returning it. And that is a fact. I do not k is where you source your materials, but i know i have no difficulty returning my parts/materials if they're not what i want. Intact, i've had situations where i have bought two boilers (ideal logic +) from plumbase but it soon became obvious that one of the customers will present a problem. I simply returned one a week later.
The law is straight forward. You have the right to return something if it is not fit for purpose. Even if you had fitted the boiler, and are willing to put in the extra labour hours by removing it and returning it to the merchant, they will give you a replacement and send boiler back to the manufacturer. What have they lost? Just a bit of inconvenience and paperwork involved. The internet is a different ball game. I refuse to buy from there as there is even no guarantee you'll be getting what you ordered. Chances are they'll sell you a fake replica from china.

in this case the boiler is fit for purpose just not the purpose the op intends to use it for which as he admits is his fault
i dont think you can use a system boiler with boilermates as the pumps are on the boiler mate and cant be controlled by the boiler
this is definitely true of the early boilermates im not so genned up on the latter ones
having said that i have a system boiler running with a boiler mate but it been modified in a way that would frighten the horses now days

 

[village idiot]

Boiler mates have the various pumps on them:
Heating pump
DHW pump
Boiler ppump. Even though the boiler mate is only SEVEN yrs old, I'll bin the 'Sludge Bucket' and fit an unvented cylinder as has already been pointed out.
Ray, I see your point about not accepting an open packaged boiler. But look at it from my point of view. If I buy two boilers a month from your outfit and decided to return one that I had taken the package appart then tell you I do not need it anymore or custard has changed their mind? You will tell me to sling my hook, would you?
MO have a good relationship with the merchants I deal with. Sometimes, I buy two boilers (Ideal Logic+) because on certain days every month, Plumbase have a 'Cash Back day' when you get given back 10% b4 VAT on all purchases over £100. For thi GS like Ideal boilers, you get £30 per boiler purchased. So I buy in advance and if after a week or two I can't shift it, I return it. I know I got close to returning a 42CDi which had been opened. I phoned them and said custard now wanted a 38CDi. They said I should bring it back. But I managed to convince custard that as they were considering a loft conversion, it may be a good idea to stick with the 42CDi.

 

[TBServices]

Hello everyone ,

thank you for all the comments.I am not expecting any sympathy. Normally I dont purchase online .I have bought a property and moved in 4 weeks ago, really short on money.With hindsight I should have gone for a tradesman.
It is true that wrong boiler was ordered.I did not open the pack.The guy who came to install it was given an unopened fresh pack .It took him more than an hour to realise that this was not the right boiler. I bought it online , they have a local warehouse.He came with me to the warehouse when we took it back and explained what has happened. They called me back saying that outside pack has been taped, they will not be able to sell it.The inside thermocol packing is secure and the boiler has been out of the pack for around one hour. They will not refund. It may not make sense (as someone already said) , but this is exactly what happened.The installer is gas safe registered and it is not that I have gone for a really cheap quote.
Now about what I have at home is a regular boiler downstairs,and boilermate which is a water store for water and central heating. The installer is saying that with this system putting a system boiler involves a lot of work and he has left the scene .If anyone can advise me on how to use a system boiler with this system I am happy to consider with all the costs .
I am not here to blame anyone. I do not expect any sympathy,please do not be rude.I am in a difficult situation, still heating needs to be sorted. My only hope is that someone locally may be interested, can come and look at the boiler pack and give me a decent price(may not be 700)

OP, have you had the work done yet or are you left waiting?

If you want a second opinion I would happily come and give you a quote/run through the options.

 

[village idiot]

150 quid i bid. Hope you're paying postage....

I'll beat his offer. £275, plus I'll pay the postage.

 

[Ray Stafford]

Ray, I see your point about not accepting an open packaged boiler. But look at it from my point of view. If I buy two boilers a month from your outfit and decided to return one that I had taken the package appart then tell you I do not need it anymore or custard has changed their mind? You will tell me to sling my hook, would you?

If the box is unopened, not a problem.

If the box was opened, and if you were a regular, and it was a one-off occurrence, and assuming all other possibilities were exhausted, we would take it back.

If you made a habit of it, we would politely suggest that you might be happier dealing with a different merchant.

Look at it the other way around. Once the merchant takes it back, they have to resell it. How do you like being offered an open box? I suspect you are like 99% of my customers - either you don't want it at all, or you want a substantial discount. So at the very least, you are asking the merchant to bear the cost of a discount to move the boiler on. From experience I can tell you that if that boiler isn't moved on within a few weeks, the merchant will end up scrapping it or selling it for spares.

Margins on boilers are very slim, so its only worth bearing that cost if you have an ongoing and valuable relationship with the customer.

 

[Bunker]

I don't know about Baxi or gas because I'm an Oilie but as mentioned before, any system boiler can be converted to regular in minutes. Either there is more to it or the installer was incompetent.

As for your price, anyone of us would most likely be able to buy one at trade (a reward for trade loyalty and year round spending) which is probably a fair bit cheaper than you are asking for, rendering the deal valueless I'm afraid.

As a side line, if the boiler really is wrong then I feel very sorry for the installer who has wasted a lot of time getting to that point, I hope you offered to recompense him for time spent to date.

 

[Ray Stafford]

The law is straight forward. You have the right to return something if it is not fit for purpose. Even if you had fitted the boiler, and are willing to put in the extra labour hours by removing it and returning it to the merchant, they will give you a replacement and send boiler back to the manufacturer. What have they lost? Just a bit of inconvenience and paperwork involved. The Internet is a different ball game. I refuse to buy from there as there is even no guarantee you'll be getting what you ordered. Chances are they'll sell you a fake replica from China.

There is so much wrong in this post that I don't know where to start!

Firstly, the law is far from straightforward. Its not clear whether this was a trade sale or a retail sale to start with (in legal terms) and a completely different set of legislation applies, depending on which it is.

You have the right to return something if it is not fit for purpose.

I think you misunderstand what fit-for-purpose means. So long as it is fit for the purpose that the SELLER claimed there is no breach. So if you order a television from me, and I deliver you a working television, you can't claim your money back based on the fact that you thought it was a washing machine.

Even if you had fitted the boiler, and are willing to put in the extra labour hours by removing it and returning it to the merchant, they will give you a replacement and send boiler back to the manufacturer. What have they lost? Just a bit of inconvenience and paperwork involved.

None of this is true. The boiler warranties come with terms and conditions. Lots of people think they have statutory rights to rip a boiler off the wall and march into the merchant demanding a refund, and then find out to their cost their rights and responsibilities are a bit more complex than that.

The Internet is a different ball game. I refuse to buy from there as there is even no guarantee you'll be getting what you ordered. Chances are they'll sell you a fake replica from China.

I guess everyone is entitled to their paranoias, but I have never come across boilers being faked in china. The key is dealing with a seller in whose reputation you have some trust. Walking into a major business bricks and mortar building and dealing with the same business online is exactly the same in terms of the risk you take of being scammed.

 

[Ermintrude]

Isn't the pump external on the solo he? Solo dosnt require pump over run? Boiler does have a pump tie in tho.

 

[Ermintrude]

Doh it's a mega flow sorry! Don't know where I got solo from.

Still a relatively simple fix remove primary pump on the boiler mate. Bridge it out and she's a good one . Competent engineer will be required to ensure interlock works . Boiler will pump over for ages tho as boiler mate will be hot hot hot. Is it defo boiler that's gone up the swanny? Also which boiler mate is it??

 

[village idiot]

Ray, I wouldn't buy a boiler with the packaging ripped open. I'd require at least a 50% discount to tempt me to accept it. The whole logic behind my arguement is that its better to buy from your local merchant than from the Internet. If the installer had bought the boiler and there was a problem, then that is the installers problem, not the custards. Besides, I'll not make it a regular occurrence. Why should I? If I did, then I'd expect the merchant to suspect I was grossly incompetent. Also, if I was the merchant, I'll simply return it to Worcester Bosch.
I'm not surprised margins are low. You just have to look at prices offered on the net. The future is worrying? Most peeps will buy boiler from net, get on line advice on how to fit it (not on here ofcourse - croppie wouldn't allow it) then have it fitted themselves, and then trick some RGI to sign it off?

 

[Ray Stafford]

If the installer had bought the boiler and there was a problem, then that is the installers problem, not the custards.

Absolutely agree with this.

Also, if I was the merchant, I'll simply return it to Worcester Bosch.

Zero chance of this. WB would be incredibly polite and point you to their terms and conditions whilst not budging an inch.

I'm not surprised margins are low. You just have to look at prices offered on the net. The future is worrying? Most peeps will buy boiler from net, get on line advice on how to fit it (not on here ofcourse - croppie wouldn't allow it) then have it fitted themselves, and then trick some RGI to sign it off?

The internet is just a channel of communication. For a period (and we are in the middle of that period now) all sorts of businesses will be disrupted whilst both consumers and suppliers work out how to make the best of it. Its not the first time - back in the late 19th century, a combination of widespread literacy, the spread of magazines and periodicals, the penny post and the railways all came together to create "mail order".

It will all settle out in the long run, and those that offer the right service at the right price will survive, and the others will go to the wall.

 

[village idiot]

I do not dispute any of your evaluations Ray.
If anyone took a close look at my first post, I'm of the opinion that the 'installer' should have looked at the packaging before opening the boiler. I really do not think I will want to return a boiler as if its not what it's meant to be when I hang it up, I'll get the manufacturers to attend and resolve it. Hence the warranty. I always make my customers understand that if they buy the materials and I turn up just to find its tie wrong materials, they will still pay my labour charges for the day.

 

[Masood]

OP, have you had the work done yet or are you left waiting?

If you want a second opinion I would happily come and give you a quote/run through the options.

OP, take up Tom's offer. You'll get top-quality work from a respected forum member.

 

[Ray Stafford]

What are the long distance selling rules Ray?

I had to look them up Leo.

The reason I don't have them at my fingertips is that they don't apply to business-to-business transactions. They form part of the consumer protections which you kiss goodbye as you walk past the sign that says "trade counter", or open a "trade account", or ask for a "trade discount".

But assuming that the OP was dealing as a consumer -

Generally speaking, it does give the right of return - even with opened packaging - within 7 days. There is a long list of exempted items (like CDs, software, perishables, items of personal hygeine, customised items etc) to which this right does not extend. The list cannot be exhaustive.

The explanatory section of the regulations says that the consumer should have the same opportunity to inspect the goods that he or she would have had in a normal shop. This is a tricky one - some merchants may have a few models on display (more likely empty cases) but certainly couldn't display all models. Consumers would not normally have the opportunity to rootle about in the merchant warehouse, unboxing products.

Generally speaking, the courts tend to side with consumers, so the OP might get away with it.

Edit - Auctions, including online auctions, are also excluded from the DSR. So if you buy on Ebay auction you are surrendering your DSR rights.

 

[basildog]

I had to look them up Leo.

The reason I don't have them at my fingertips is that they don't apply to business-to-business transactions. They form part of the consumer protections which you kiss goodbye as you walk past the sign that says "trade counter", or open a "trade account", or ask for a "trade discount".

But assuming that the OP was dealing as a consumer -

Generally speaking, it does give the right of return - even with opened packaging - within 7 days. There is a long list of exempted items (like CDs, software, perishables, items of personal hygeine, customised items etc) to which this right does not extend. The list cannot be exhaustive.

The explanatory section of the regulations says that the consumer should have the same opportunity to inspect the goods that he or she would have had in a normal shop. This is a tricky one - some merchants may have a few models on display (more likely empty cases) but certainly couldn't display all models. Consumers would not normally have the opportunity to rootle about in the merchant warehouse, unboxing products.

Generally speaking, the courts tend to side with consumers, so the OP might get away with it.

Edit - Auctions, including online auctions, are also excluded from the DSR. So if you buy on Ebay auction you are surrendering your DSR rights.

I think most small businesses and tradesmen do not realise they are not covered by the consumer protection laws when they make a purchase ?
It applies to most transactions they make such as vehicles and insurance also advertising and materials etc .
Makes me laugh when they start saying I can do this and that about it !
Not until they sit with a solicitor do they realise the law is a rich mans game and best to recover what you can as like you say the courts will nearly always side with the poor innocent homeowner not the bad tradesman !