Can I become a plumber if I hate physics?

[Rob Foster]

Good summing up Mr Watkins I am off to the river

 

[chris watkins]

And you use thermodynamics and chemistry in your daily life?

We all do (including you).

 

[chris watkins]

Good summing up Mr Watkins I am off to the river

When you get back Rob it would good to hear what you are developing.
Have a nice time & don't fall in.

 

[viorelflower]

We all do (including you).

Including heat engine chapter(Otto and Diesel engines) and the 1st and 2nd principle of thermodynamics?
I really don't know how much thermodynamics I should study and I heard that most of the thermodynamics is for mechanics and firefighters.I don't want to learn at the level of a mechanic or firefighter.I want to learn thermodynamics at the level of a plumber and I don't want to learn complicated formulas.

 

[viorelflower]

thermal dynamics

Thermodynamics or thermaldynamics?I don't understand what you mean there.

 

[rpm]

You really are overthinking this unless it is the required knowledge where you live, where do you live viorelflower?

 

[viorelflower]

You really are overthinking this unless it is the required knowledge where you live, where do you live viorelflower?

Romania.You didn't exactly helped me as I expected..I wanted informations about the quantity of thermodynamics and chemistry used in plumbing...

 

[viorelflower]

You really are overthinking this

Well I'm not overthinking this but don't you need to understand all the thermodynamics chapters to work with a Heat-only boiler station?

 

[chris watkins]

The direct answer to your question is that the level of both physics & maths required in UK plumbing is low, even at Level 3.

???
Some examples of the basic stuff required.
Heat can only flow from hot to cold = heatloss for sizing heating systems.
Specific Heat Capacity = How much heat energy can stored = heating systems design / flow rates.
Density & expansion of water at difference temperatures = gravity circulation, expansion rates in systems.
PH scale etc.
It is that kind of think that is required.

 

[rpm]

Well I know a lady from Bulgaria who is very well versed in some complicated subjects which she started learning at a very young age compared to here in the UK so maybe you do have to know what you are asking in Romania.

 

[viorelflower]

Well I know a lady from Bulgaria who is very well versed in some complicated subjects which she started learning at a very young age compared to here in the UK so maybe you do have to know what you are asking in Romania.

Like learning all thermodynamics chapters?Is that what you're trying to say?This lady that you knew required thermodynamics chapters and chemistry for her plumbing career?

 

[rpm]

Like learning all thermodynamics chapters?Is that what you're trying to say?This lady that you knew required thermodynamics chapters and chemistry for her plumbing career?

No, the lady wasn`t a plumber, my point was that she was expected to know far more about her subject to be qualified there than if she lived here. Also she had to sit tests here as her qualifications were not recognised here.

 

[viorelflower]

Then how much thermodynamics do you need?

 

[rpm]

Then how much thermodynamics do you need?

Seeing as there is plumbing at so many different levels around the world with different qualifications that question is unanswerable.
Think it was post #9 where you were told that you will be taught and learn what you need over time or you could of course ask a Romanian plumber.

 

[Ric2013]

Well I'm not overthinking this but don't you need to understand all the thermodynamics chapters to work with a Heat-only boiler station?

The thermodynamics chapters of which textbook ???

 

[viorelflower]

The thermodynamics chapters of which textbook ???

Chapter 1. Introductory Remarks

1.1 Introduction
1.2 Caloric, Calories, Heat and Energy
1.3 Extensive and Intensive Quantities
1.4 Mole
1.5 Prepositions
1.6 Applicability of Equations


Chapter 2. Partial Derivatives

2.1 Introduction
2.2 Partial Derivatives
2.3 Implicit Differentiation
2.4 Product of Three Partial Derivatives
2.5 Second Derivatives and Exact Differentials
2.6 Euler's Theorem for Homogeneous Functions
2.7 Undetermined Multipliers
2.8 Dee and Delta


Chapter 3. Temperature

3.1 Introduction
3.2 Zeroth Law of Thermodynamics
3.3 Temperature Scales (1)
3.4 Temperature Scales (2)
3.5 Exercises


Chapter 4. Thermal Conduction

4.0 The Error Function
4.1 Introduction
4.2 Thermal Conductivity
4.3 The Heat Conduction Equation
4.4 A Solution of the Heat Conduction Equation


Chapter 5. Thermodynamic Processes

Chapter 6. Properties of Gases

6.1 The Ideal Gas Equation
6.2 Real Gases
6.3 Van der Waals and Other Gases
6.4 Gas, Vapour, Liquid and Solid
6.5 Kinetic Theory of Gases: Pressure
6.6 Collisions
6.7 Distribution of Speeds
6.8 Forces Between Molecules


Chapter 7. The First and Second Laws of Thermodynamics

7.1 The First Law of Thermodynamics, and Internal Energy
7.2 Work
7.3 Entropy
7.4 The Second Law of Thermodynamics


Chapter 8. Heat Capacity, and the Expansion of Gases

8.1 Heat Capacity
8.2 Ratio of the Heat Capacities of a Gas
8.3 Isothermal Expansion of an Ideal Gas
8.4 Reversible Adiabatic Expansion of an Ideal Gas
8.5 The Clément-Desormes Experiment
8.6 The Slopes of Isotherms and Adiabats
8.7 Scale Height in an Isothermal Atmosphere
8.8 Adiabatic Lapse Rate
8.9 Numerical Values of Specific and Molar Heat Capacities
8.10 Heat Capacities of Solids


Chapter 9. Enthalpy

9.1 Enthalpy
9.2 Change of State
9.3 Latent Heat and Enthalpy


Chapter 10. The Joule and Joule-Thomson Experiments

10.1 Introduction
10.2 The Joule Experiment
10.3 The Joule-Thomson Experiment
10.4 CP Minus CV
10.5 Blackbody Radiation


Chapter 11. Heat Engines

11.1 Introduction
11.2 The Carnot Cycle
11.3 The Stirling Cycle
11.4 The Otto Cycle
11.5 The Diesel Cycle
11.6 The Rankine Cycle (Steam Engine)
11.7 A Useful Exercise
11.8 Heat Engines and Refrigerators
11.9 Entropy is a Function of State


Chapter 12. Free Energy

12.1 Review of Internal Energy and Enthalpy
12.2 Free Energy
12.3
12.4 Helmholtz Free Energy
12.5 Gibbs Free Energy
12.6 Summary, the Maxwell Relations, and the Gibbs-Helmholtz Relations
12.7 The Joule and Joule-Thomson Coefficients
12.8 The Thermodynamic Functions for an Ideal Gas
12.9 The Thermodynamic Functions for Other Substances
12.10 Absolute Entropy
12.11 Charging a Battery
12.12 Surface Energy
12.13 Fugacity


Chapter 13. Expansion, Compression and the TdS Equations

13.1 Coefficient of Expansion
13.2 Compression
13.3 Pressure and Temperature
13.4 The TdS Equations
13.5 Expansion, Compression and the TdS Equations
13.6 Young's Modulus
13.7 Rigidity Modulus (Shear Modulus)
13.8 Volume, Temperature and the Grüneisen Parameter


Chapter 14. The Clausius-Clapeyron Equation

Chapter 15. Adiabatic Demagnetization

15.1 Introduction
15.2 Adiabatic Decompression
15.3 Adiabatic Demagnetization
15.4 Entropy and Temperature


Chapter 16. Nernst's Heat Theorem and the Third Law of Thermodynamics

16.1 Nernst's Heat Theorem
16.2 The Third Law of Thermodynamics


Chapter 17. Chemical Thermodynamics

17.1 Equilibrium Constant
17.2 Heat of Reaction
17.3 The Gibbs Phase Rule
17.4 Chemical Potential
17.5 Partial and Mean Molar Quantities
17.6 The Gibbs-Duhem Relation
17.7 Chemical Potential, Pressure, Fugacity
17.8 Entropy of Mixing, and Gibbs' Paradox
17.9 Binary Alloys
17.10 Ternary Alloys


Chapter 18. Experimental Measurements

18.1 Introduction
18.2 Thermal Conductivity
18.3 The Universal Gas Constant
18.4 Avogadro's Number and Boltzmann's Constant
18.5 Specific Heat Capacities of Solids and Liquids
18.6 Specific Heat Capacities of Gases
18.7 Latent Heat of Fusion
18.8 Coefficient of Expansion

All these for plumbing?Am I right?

 

[fixitflav]

Ignore last message, sent too soon by mistake. I'll try again.

 

[fixitflav]

Chapter 1. Introductory Remarks

1.1 Introduction
1.2 Caloric, Calories, Heat and Energy
1.3 Extensive and Intensive Quantities
1.4 Mole
1.5 Prepositions
1.6 Applicability of Equations


Chapter 2. Partial Derivatives

2.1 Introduction
2.2 Partial Derivatives
2.3 Implicit Differentiation
2.4 Product of Three Partial Derivatives
2.5 Second Derivatives and Exact Differentials
2.6 Euler's Theorem for Homogeneous Functions
2.7 Undetermined Multipliers
2.8 Dee and Delta


Chapter 3. Temperature

3.1 Introduction
3.2 Zeroth Law of Thermodynamics
3.3 Temperature Scales (1)
3.4 Temperature Scales (2)
3.5 Exercises


Chapter 4. Thermal Conduction

4.0 The Error Function
4.1 Introduction
4.2 Thermal Conductivity
4.3 The Heat Conduction Equation
4.4 A Solution of the Heat Conduction Equation


Chapter 5. Thermodynamic Processes

Chapter 6. Properties of Gases

6.1 The Ideal Gas Equation
6.2 Real Gases
6.3 Van der Waals and Other Gases
6.4 Gas, Vapour, Liquid and Solid
6.5 Kinetic Theory of Gases: Pressure
6.6 Collisions
6.7 Distribution of Speeds
6.8 Forces Between Molecules


Chapter 7. The First and Second Laws of Thermodynamics

7.1 The First Law of Thermodynamics, and Internal Energy
7.2 Work
7.3 Entropy
7.4 The Second Law of Thermodynamics


Chapter 8. Heat Capacity, and the Expansion of Gases

8.1 Heat Capacity
8.2 Ratio of the Heat Capacities of a Gas
8.3 Isothermal Expansion of an Ideal Gas
8.4 Reversible Adiabatic Expansion of an Ideal Gas
8.5 The Clément-Desormes Experiment
8.6 The Slopes of Isotherms and Adiabats
8.7 Scale Height in an Isothermal Atmosphere
8.8 Adiabatic Lapse Rate
8.9 Numerical Values of Specific and Molar Heat Capacities
8.10 Heat Capacities of Solids


Chapter 9. Enthalpy

9.1 Enthalpy
9.2 Change of State
9.3 Latent Heat and Enthalpy


Chapter 10. The Joule and Joule-Thomson Experiments

10.1 Introduction
10.2 The Joule Experiment
10.3 The Joule-Thomson Experiment
10.4 CP Minus CV
10.5 Blackbody Radiation


Chapter 11. Heat Engines

11.1 Introduction
11.2 The Carnot Cycle
11.3 The Stirling Cycle
11.4 The Otto Cycle
11.5 The Diesel Cycle
11.6 The Rankine Cycle (Steam Engine)
11.7 A Useful Exercise
11.8 Heat Engines and Refrigerators
11.9 Entropy is a Function of State


Chapter 12. Free Energy

12.1 Review of Internal Energy and Enthalpy
12.2 Free Energy
12.3
12.4 Helmholtz Free Energy
12.5 Gibbs Free Energy
12.6 Summary, the Maxwell Relations, and the Gibbs-Helmholtz Relations
12.7 The Joule and Joule-Thomson Coefficients
12.8 The Thermodynamic Functions for an Ideal Gas
12.9 The Thermodynamic Functions for Other Substances
12.10 Absolute Entropy
12.11 Charging a Battery
12.12 Surface Energy
12.13 Fugacity


Chapter 13. Expansion, Compression and the TdS Equations

13.1 Coefficient of Expansion
13.2 Compression
13.3 Pressure and Temperature
13.4 The TdS Equations
13.5 Expansion, Compression and the TdS Equations
13.6 Young's Modulus
13.7 Rigidity Modulus (Shear Modulus)
13.8 Volume, Temperature and the Grüneisen Parameter


Chapter 14. The Clausius-Clapeyron Equation

Chapter 15. Adiabatic Demagnetization

15.1 Introduction
15.2 Adiabatic Decompression
15.3 Adiabatic Demagnetization
15.4 Entropy and Temperature


Chapter 16. Nernst's Heat Theorem and the Third Law of Thermodynamics

16.1 Nernst's Heat Theorem
16.2 The Third Law of Thermodynamics


Chapter 17. Chemical Thermodynamics

17.1 Equilibrium Constant
17.2 Heat of Reaction
17.3 The Gibbs Phase Rule
17.4 Chemical Potential
17.5 Partial and Mean Molar Quantities
17.6 The Gibbs-Duhem Relation
17.7 Chemical Potential, Pressure, Fugacity
17.8 Entropy of Mixing, and Gibbs' Paradox
17.9 Binary Alloys
17.10 Ternary Alloys


Chapter 18. Experimental Measurements

18.1 Introduction
18.2 Thermal Conductivity
18.3 The Universal Gas Constant
18.4 Avogadro's Number and Boltzmann's Constant
18.5 Specific Heat Capacities of Solids and Liquids
18.6 Specific Heat Capacities of Gases
18.7 Latent Heat of Fusion
18.8 Coefficient of Expansion

All these for plumbing?Am I right?

Looks like a good book. As a physicist myself (BSc, but many years ago) I would recommend studying that for its own sake, but not because of a possible career in plumbing
A plumber needs practically none of that. A heating engineer might use a few % of it. Some of the concepts he might find useful are :
Volume expansivity of water
Calorific values of fuels
Specific heat of fluids (usually water)
Convective heat transfer (which I don't see covered) and radiative heat transfer (which is, but not in a form most heating engineers would find useful)
Heat conduction, specially insulating material
Hydraulics (which isn't part of thermodynamics)

Perhaps heating engineers can add more, but you definitely don't need partial derivatives or Carnot's theorem!

 

[viorelflower]

Perhaps heating engineers can add more, but you definitely don't need partial derivatives or Carnot's theorem!

Neither heat engines?You don't use heat engines as a plumber?

 

[fixitflav]

Neither heat engines? You don't use heat engines as a plumber?

Only when driving to work!
Heating engineers could be involved in heat pumps, which are heat engines acting in reverse, but that's more advanced than plumbing.

 

[chris watkins]

The Sterling (cycle) engine is the basis of the micro heat & power units sold by Baxi & no doubt others but you won't find many of those around in the UK

9.2 Change of State
9.3 Latent Heat and Enthalpy

Condensing boilers & heat pumps

 

[rpm]

The Sterling (cycle) engine is the basis of the micro heat & power units sold by Baxi & no doubt others but you won't find many of those around in the UK

Condensing boilers & heat pumps

He is in Romania, or was yesterday chris.

 

[Ric2013]

That textbook is far more academic than anything you need for plumbing, unless you want to start designing your own boilers.

 

[fixitflav]

Condensing boilers & heat pumps

Agreed, thermodynamics is involved in designing this kit, but that's not the working plumber's job

 

[firemant]

Including heat engine chapter(Otto and Diesel engines) and the 1st and 2nd principle of thermodynamics?
I really don't know how much thermodynamics I should study and I heard that most of the thermodynamics is for mechanics and firefighters.I don't want to learn at the level of a mechanic or firefighter.I want to learn thermodynamics at the level of a plumber and I don't want to learn complicated formulas.

I really cannot be bothered reading any more of this wind up nonsense.