Can I claim againest a compression fitting that burst?

[Sammyt]

Hi.
I had a brand new full bore lever valve burst on me over night causing damage to the flooring, skirtings etc. So does anyone know if I can make a claim againest the fitting manufactures themselves? The actual nut on the compression split in half causing the valve to jump off the pipe leaving a gap between the fitting and the olive. It had been on there under pressure for a couple of days. The pressure isn't exsesifly high nor was the valve fitted incorrectly.

many thanks
Sam

 

[Rickster123]

Hi mate think you would have a serious fight on your hands with this. I doubt you would get very far I'm afraid. But best of luck if you go for it.

 

[Barry98]

You will have to prove it was the fitting and nothing else , like app has said you'll have one hell if a fight on your hands. But good luck

 

[Rob Sale]

your probably best on a legal forum! where legal types hang about.

 

[on31ll]

As above really go for it but they have people that there job is to just prove they where not at fault followed by lawyers etc ! They will find a way to ship blame ! On you the end user or the merchant etc ! Say you overtughtend etc even if you personally dont think you did ! Cant see it going far an if it did would cost alot in fees ! But hey if you think you have a strong case go for it ! Us guys at the forum will give advice where we can !

 

[Sammyt]

Yeah my thinking also but why should I claim on my own insurance or pay for the repairs myself when it's not technically my fault. If the nut and olive had slipped of you'd understand but this one snapped off topically in the middle of the night. Surely manufacturers should take responsibility for a fitting every now and then. It's up to the to make sure they last. Longer than a couple of days anyway!
thanms for your reply.

 

[Sammyt]

Cheers guys. Will let you know how it goes :S

 

[Whn1]

The problem here is here's no way you can prove that it was installed correctly. You say it's been under pressure for a couple of days, I've seen fluxed fitting hold back mains pressure for months/years.

 

[tamz]

At most you would get a new valve if you were lucky. Claim it against your house insurance.

 

[Ray Stafford]

The short answer is that you can't get anywhere legally (probably) but that doesn't mean that there is nothing you can do.

Before you do anything else, take photos of the damage, and of the valve, preferably still in situ.

You don't have any contract with the manufacturer. Your contract is with the company that supplied you the valve.

You will almost certainly find that your supplier's terms and conditions of sale limit their liability to repair/replace/refund, and exclude consequential loss. You are therefore entitled to a replacement valve, or if they are being really picky, a replacement nut! Not a great outcome.

However, if you approach your supplier and ask them for help gaining compo from the manufacturer, you may get somewhere. If you do a lot of business with that supplier, and they do a lot of business with that manufacturer, they may be prepared to broker a goodwill agreement between you and the manufacturer. The longer the chain of suppliers, the harder this is to achieve. For example, if the supply chain consists of manufacturer > merchant > you then it could be easy. If the chain is manufacturer > distributor > big merchant > small merchant > retailer > you, then there are lots more links to put together.

Bear in mind that your legal position is weak, so the best approach is polite but persistent. It still doesn't guarantee a result, but its the most effective tecnique.

 

[chris watkins]

As perviously posted by others the problem is proving it was installed correctly in the first place, perhaps it was overtightened & that has caused the soft brass nut to expand & finally spit when pressure was greatest (overnight) ?
Did you test it ? BS 6700 calls for ridged pipework systems to be tested to 1.5 times there maximum working pressure, this way any problems can be found & repaired under controlled conditions.
Your hand, in making a claim is either greatly enhanced by testing or reduced if you didn't.

 

[Barry98]

Show us a pic if you can

 

[chris watkins]

Oh, sorry BOD did you not mean me ?? LOL

 

[Ray Stafford]

There are two different angles being followed here.

I wouldn't go to too much trouble to establish where the fault lies, until I knew what the contractual chain looked like. There is little point in proving categorically that you are right, only to find that your supplier is going to stand on his terms and conditions.

On the other hand, its hard for your supplier to give you too much sympathy if you have clearly mullah-ed the fitting. We had a hose union tap returned recently which had sheared inside the backplate elbow. Looking at the tool marks on it, it appeared the fitter had tightened it up with 36" stillies. We still replaced it, but I wouldn't have been calling in any favours with the manufacturer on his behalf.

 

[Centralheatking]

The basic test is/was the fitting an approved one or one that eminated from
the far east eg it might look like a WRas approved fitting but could be a clone
one - there are loads of this type about and only really well set up plumbing
merchant will know the difference - like Ray above.


Altecknic eg have massive problems with 'look alikes' valves and fittings
undercutting their prices and poor quality.


End of day go back to the installer - he bought it.........centralheatking

 

[erpkid]

Just about everything supplied today is covered for itself / materials and workmanship / fit for use etc. That is if it fails to work / falls apart they will give you a new one. However the big thing which is almost never covered is consequential loss. Unless you have a lot of time on your hands I would just claim on your house insurance. A politely worded letter to the supplier or manufacturer might get you something on a strict good will basis though.

 

[on31ll]

good to get a business side of things off ray on the forum ! how the chain works etc. gain the best idea of how to approch then !

 

[Sammyt]

Cheers everyone. Think ill claim on house insurance as I am the installer. Topically it would happen at my own home lol!
ive taken a couple of pictures but there not great. Ill try to post one on here. Ill also write a letter to my supplier.

 

[Sammyt]

How do I add a picture?

 

[snowhead]

When you claim from your own insurance you may be able to get them to take up it up with the fitting manufacturer if there is obviously a fault, i.e thin walls on the nut.

 

[julesverne]

you might want to have a look at the sale of goods act. goods have to be fit for the purpose you may also want to look at whether the act or a similar act of statute would cover this incident for consequential loss.
just because your supplier or manufacturer may state they will not cover consequential loss if you or a lawyer knows of a statute that overides this and says they are, then what they have written wont count for nothing because no contract can override an act of parliament.
but also bear in mind the sale of goods act may only cover a consumer and not a tradesmen i have no idea. its about 20 years since i did my a-level in law
so get proper legal advice/consult a lawyer or legal forum.

 

[petercj]

No harm in trying the polite route as described above.

If you were considering making a robust legal claim you will need an engineer's report on the faulty item, i.e. someone suitably qualified to provide an expert opinion to the Court, and to answer questions by other experts if required to. Such people don't come cheap, and if they are required to attend Court you should expect quite a bill. If you lose the case, you may end up with the other side's costs awarded against you. If it's a manufacturer, or a merchant even, they will probably be using fairly expensive legal representation at around 250 to 300 pounds an hour - such costs could be avoidable in the small claims court, if a Judge decides it should stay on a small claims track - the more complicated the matter becomes, the less chance there will be of it staying as a small claims case, and so the greater the risk of costs being awarded.

You should be able to find a solicitor who for a small fee will give you an opinion on the chances of winning a case in Court, or maybe even without charge - try yellow pages for solicitors offer a free initial consultation in your area.

The Court will expect you to try other routes open to you before bringing a claim to Court, so try a polite letter by recorded delivery stating your case, and what it will take to settle it.

If they refuse to negotiate with you over it, suggest a mediation session - you will need to share the cost. If they blank you on that, then you could put a claim into the small claims Court for consequential damages at a stated cost, and if it's a thousand or so, they might settle the matter out of Court rather than keeping up the involvement of solicitors. The weak point in your case will be the lack of an engineer's report. However, it might be that the other side will suggest an independent report at their expense if you agree to go along with the outcome. Which if it was me, I would go along with.

If they refuse to consider your claim in a reasonable way, then you can start a claim in the small claims Court without too much fear of incurring costs if you lose. But if it get's taken off the small Claims track because it starts to look too involved for straightforward settlement, that's the point where the risk of incurring costs begins should you lose.

A recorded delivery letter is going to cost next to nothing. Include photographs as suggested, and say what kind of settlement you are looking for. If they intend to take your claim seriously they will want to see the item and form an opinion on it. If they suggest getting an independent opinion at their expense, I would be inclined to agree to go along with the outcome.

 

[Ray Stafford]

you might want to have a look at the sale of goods act. goods have to be fit for the purpose you may also want to look at whether the act or a similar act of statute would cover this incident for consequential loss.
just because your supplier or manufacturer may state they will not cover consequential loss if you or a lawyer knows of a statute that overides this and says they are, then what they have written wont count for nothing because no contract can override an act of parliament.
but also bear in mind the sale of goods act may only cover a consumer and not a tradesmen i have no idea. its about 20 years since i did my a-level in law
so get proper legal advice/consult a lawyer or legal forum.

Disclaimer. I am not a lawyer. Just as we advise posters to get qualified advice from a GSR, we should also recommend that they take qualified legal advice when they need it.


I assumed that the OP was a tradesman. If not, then various consumer protections apply which I won't comment on, since I lack the expertise.

However, if he is a tradesman, and bought the item in the course of business, then consumer protections don't apply, but contract law does.

The contractual chain is well established in law. You sue your supplier, who sues his supplier, and so on.

Unless the OP can persuade a court that he has conditions of purchase which over-ride the sellers terms and conditions of sale, the latter will prevail. The court will ask the seller to establish that he had taken reasonable steps to communicate these terms to the buyer. Usually printing terms on the back of invoices, on credit account application forms and in other sales literature will suffice. In the case of on-line retailers I understand that the situation is a bit more complicated and fluid, and precedent changes more rapidly. Again, in this field I lack the expertise to give a firm opinion.

If the seller is a business of any substance, they will have their terms and conditions reviewed and updated regularly to make sure that they are robust and compliant with current judicial interpretations. The days of unreasonable contract terms are long gone for reputable businesses.

Although we try to avoid such situations, once a business reaches a certain size and volume of transactions, it is hard to entirely avoid such claims. Whilst I can't be absolutely sure what a court would decide in a given case, we have not had our terms and conditions overturned by a court, despite several attempts. Neither am I aware of any other merchant having their "no consequential loss" clause overturned under normal circumstances. Were it to happen, it would be very big news in the merchant industry, with serious implications for us, our insurers, and frankly for the price that you guys pay for your materials.

On the other hand, we have brokered many goodwill settlements to the satisfaction of all parties, which is why I recommend this route.

 

[turnpin]

some good old common sense advice discussed here at the forum as usual mixed responses but all nicely played ladies and gentlemen makes you kind of glad you joined up.....:8:

 

[Mike Jackson]

Many years ago I had a faulty Hep2O elbow behind a shower. To replace it I had to cut the stud wall out from the other side to avoid damaging the tiles. I sent the faulty fitting back to Hepworth and they confirmed that the fitting was faulty, paid for all the remedial works and sent out a few bags of fittings as a goodwill gesture.