Can I Run This Commercial Quote Past You Guys?? | Commercial and Industrial Plumbing Forum | Plumbers Forums

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Can I Run This Commercial Quote Past You Guys??

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cr0ft

cr0ft

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Hi all,

This is my first commercial quote for fitting a couple of 65KW Worcester GB162s. I went to have a look at the job today and it seems quite a straightforward one to be honest. There are 2x Keston 55KW boilers in there at the moment, side by side in a plant room. Both fed from a 42mm gas pipe teeing off down to 22mm for each boiler.

Existing boilers have condensate connections through walls and they will be flued straight through the external wall on 80/125 horizontal flues.

No isolation valves on the primary pipework into the low loss header so we were going to freeze the pipework and fit them to avoid any draining down of both heating circuits and the hot water circuit to the cylinder.

It's a competitive quote against 2 other companies locally. They want us to supply and fit the boilers and the pump group set for each one.

Cost price to me for the boilers and pump sets is £3,300 each. With sundry materials and a 10% markup on the lot I get to £3,914 materials per boiler. I've put down for £750 + VAT for installing each boiler so total per boiler is £4,814 for a total of £9,628 inc. VAT.

Does that sound fair/too low/too high? Really want to get this job as it would be a decent commercial job to start our portfolio off and make it worthwhile doing the commercial gas course too (would pay for it).

Thanks for all advice,

Keiran.
 
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I am not gsr just yet but to be honest, it does sound alright. I believe some other engineers would charge a lot more for the labour due to the fact it's commercial. But if you would like to start your portfolio I think it's more then fair.
 
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No desperate rush to be honest. I said I'd submit the quote before the end of the week. Took lots of photos of the plant room today but it all made sense to me and from what I could see the install should be a quite straight forward one.
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cr0ft said:
Hi all,

This is my first commercial quote for fitting a couple of 65KW Worcester GB162s. I went to have a look at the job today and it seems quite a straightforward one to be honest. There are 2x Keston 55KW boilers in there at the moment, side by side in a plant room. Both fed from a 42mm gas pipe teeing off down to 22mm for each boiler.

Existing boilers have condensate connections through walls and they will be flued straight through the external wall on 80/125 horizontal flues.

No isolation valves on the primary pipework into the low loss header so we were going to freeze the pipework and fit them to avoid any draining down of both heating circuits and the hot water circuit to the cylinder.

It's a competitive quote against 2 other companies locally. They want us to supply and fit the boilers and the pump group set for each one.

Cost price to me for the boilers and pump sets is £3,300 each. With sundry materials and a 10% markup on the lot I get to £3,914 materials per boiler. I've put down for £750 + VAT for installing each boiler so total per boiler is £4,814 for a total of £9,628 inc. VAT.

Does that sound fair/too low/too high? Really want to get this job as it would be a decent commercial job to start our portfolio off and make it worthwhile doing the commercial gas course too (would pay for it).

Thanks for all advice,

Keiran.
Click to expand...

In my opinion. It sounds cheap. Have you checked the output of those heating circuits?

Obviously I'm only looking at the photos ( not seen job in real life), but the boilers sound too big for that pipework I can see on the header.
I think the boilers you're talking of will be 1 1/4 inch at least but I'm also questioning the heating circuit size.
What size are they ( look like 28 on photo?)
If it were me pricing that, I'd want more info on sizes before I did the job !
Price wise, I'd expect people to be higher to be honest !
Just my opinion.
 
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Hi and thanks a lot for your feedback, your probably exactly the sort of person I wish I had there on the day to be honest!

The existing boilers have 42mm flow and returns which is actually the same as the new boilers. Existing ones are 55KW Kestons and new would be 65KW WBs.

Secondary circuits (2x heating) are in 42mm as well with mixing valve to control circuit temperature. There is also a HW Circuit to a 300L twin coil cylinder with solar also attached.

It is a very large 3 floor office and drug rehabilitation building in the centre of Lincoln and from a quick look round the heat output doesn't seem to be too far off though.

What would you quote for labour to replace them or of curiosity?

Don't want to sell myself short price wise but equally whilst I'd be happy taking this one on I am sure I will learn a fair bit from it and don't feel i can charge for my time learning!

Thanks,

Keiran.
 
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Croft
That llh looks like it's leaking or has at some point. Have you considered it might need new gaskets?
What are the walls like? How long to core two new flues?
I personally always add 20% mark up and I think you'll fine most bigger companies will be getting there material cheaper.
I don't think your to far off on the price
 
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I do work for two commercial companies one massive one and to be honest neither like big labour charges max £250 a day.
Commercial guys are coming more common place now.

All the stuff I price has massive material charges tho .I upgraded some pumps other week and overcharged them by a grand on materials.
Oddly they seem to accept that.
 
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cr0ft said:
Hi and thanks a lot for your feedback, your probably exactly the sort of person I wish I had there on the day to be honest!

The existing boilers have 42mm flow and returns which is actually the same as the new boilers. Existing ones are 55KW Kestons and new would be 65KW WBs.

Secondary circuits (2x heating) are in 42mm as well with mixing valve to control circuit temperature. There is also a HW Circuit to a 300L twin coil cylinder with solar also attached.

It is a very large 3 floor office and drug rehabilitation building in the centre of Lincoln and from a quick look round the heat output doesn't seem to be too far off though.

What would you quote for labour to replace them or of curiosity?

Don't want to sell myself short price wise but equally whilst I'd be happy taking this one on I am sure I will learn a fair bit from it and don't feel i can charge for my time learning!

Thanks,

Keiran.
Click to expand...


Hello.
I'd put 33% mark up on all materials so you're getting at least 25% gross profit on those.
Labour wise, I would want around £1500 Plus VAT. (Going off pictures and info you've given)
I haven't seen it in real life as you know. If I used your material price (net) I would be working it out at around £10500 plus VAT for that job I reckon. Don't hold me to it.

There can be things you didn't see or think of if you are not used to commercial so beware of those. It looks a simple enough job though so it should be fairly straightforward.

Have you allowed for shunts ? or are those the pumps you mentioned? I don't use Worcester Bosch so I don't know if they come with shunt pumps built in.

Is that existing header large enough for the two new boilers?

Have you thought of controls?

Have you allowed for a non return valve on each Boiler?

Just thinking out loud.
 
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Thanks a lot for the ideas to think about. I've allowed £200+Vat per boiler for contingencies such as valves etc I need. Hopefully that will be enough! The pump sets that go under the WB boilers have most of the bits you mention in them though.
 
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Atouchofgas is right there. Some prices of materials can be stupid. I would do what you've done and add on just in case you go over on time and materials and I always estimate, don't quote unless you've worded it accurate.

Same as above, not being patronising at all, I hope you do well out of it, I just know from experience how wrong it can go financially.

It will be good to get your teeth into though. Enjoy!
 
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Last Plumber said:
Hello.
I'd put 33% mark up on all materials so you're getting at least 25% gross profit on those.
Labour wise, I would want around £1500 Plus VAT. (Going off pictures and info you've given)
I haven't seen it in real life as you know. If I used your material price (net) I would be working it out at around £10500 plus VAT for that job I reckon. Don't hold me to it.

There can be things you didn't see or think of if you are not used to commercial so beware of those. It looks a simple enough job though so it should be fairly straightforward.

Have you allowed for shunts ? or are those the pumps you mentioned? I don't use Worcester Bosch so I don't know if they come with shunt pumps built in.

Is that existing header large enough for the two new boilers?

Have you thought of controls?

Have you allowed for a non return valve on each Boiler?

Just thinking out loud.
Click to expand...


Sorry last,
I just wanted to ask you what you mean by 30% mark up? Does it mean 30% on top of the original quote ?
 
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Atouchofgas said:
Remember commercial size fittings are going to be expensive and that £200 can disappear very fast. Have you counted what fittings are required, not try to patronise but don't want you out of pocket either
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Yes thanks, no offence accepted. I've counted the fittings and isolation valves I will need for the 42mm flow and return pipework to connect onto the boiler. Was quite surprised at the cost, i.e. £20 ish + VAT per full bore lever valve and of course the cost of 42mm copper pipe too!

I have used the catch-all on my estimate that the price assumes that all existing fittings and controls are suitable for the job, if not additional charges will apply.

They sounded keen when I submitted it today, will keep you updated!
 
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cr0ft said:
Yes thanks, no offence accepted. I've counted the fittings and isolation valves I will need for the 42mm flow and return pipework to connect onto the boiler. Was quite surprised at the cost, i.e. £20 ish + VAT per full bore lever valve and of course the cost of 42mm copper pipe too!

I have used the catch-all on my estimate that the price assumes that all existing fittings and controls are suitable for the job, if not additional charges will apply.

They sounded keen when I submitted it today, will keep you updated!
Click to expand...

Yes, good luck, I hope you get it!
 
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hi croft sorry about getting here late
few questions

wheres the pumps for the circuits (not the shunt pumps) ?

i wouldn't freeze it, as its going to be a pita with a llh (always moving)

close the two red gate valves, they should work good yorkshire valves, cylinder in the same room? by the looks it is maybe

pop the heads off the actuators (marking which one is which) and turn them to bypass (return)turn the pump valves off

open the bottom lever valve on the llh (drain) should be drain but might be expansion vessel, also at this time replace llh top and bottom flange gaskets

you should be fine now and fit lever valve straight onto the llh flow and lockshield gate valves on llh return

and if boilers were combined eg one flow and return would need to be increase but as there separated 42mm is fine

would use pressfit tbh

price for boilers and shunt pumps seem high where did you get the price from bss??

also would think about 1k to install would be fine
 
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scott_d said:
I have always had to fit commercial boilers with 600mm between flues for the clean air act. Vaillant insist on it when they comission
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isnt that for anything over 70kw, im 80% the instructions say 300mm
 
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