Can you work on a boiler if your not Gas Safe?

[adam84]

am a bit confused ??? someone on here said its only if you remove the combustion cover ??? tho i do agree with you adam

You have to remove the combustion casing to access most fans or pumps on modern fan flued boilers so they are right aswell.

 

[fuzzy]

Hope someone can clarify this one for me.

I want to know where I stand on fixing domestic boilers.

I don't have domestic Gas Safe qualifications. Can I still work on boilers? in this I mean like replacing parts on them like PCB's and fans ect. I don't and never will touch anything gas, ie gas valves and pipework. Where do i stand on doing the other stuff? Am I allowed to so long as I know what I'm doing and competent?

Is anyone else in this situation and what are the boundaries.

Thanks

not as a busniness or for strangers. if competent you can fix your own and family and friends

 

[Deleted member 25704]

I have been fixing boilers for years and was Corgi since its early inception, and am GSR. But, this is my last year, since work has dropped and I can no longer support the overhead for gas.

A contributor to my decision not to re-register, is that I hardly come across a broken boiler now, where some un-registered neighbour, friend, trainee plumber or DIY guy, has not had a go first.

Landord safety checks have dropped to £25, and boiler installations for £850 - you can keep your 'professional' gas installer con.

With Gas Safe having 55,000 or so registered businesses, there are reported to be around 20,000 illegal installers - as the economy bites, this is only going to go one way, despite recent prosecutions for serial illegal installers.

But the illegal tag, is one which justifies GSR existence - are we as workers so blind that we can't see we are being exploited by a worthless licence to practice system, which cannot provide evidence that it leads to better goods and services to the public.

New installers will not pick this up, because to become an 'engineer' in weeks is a good deal, along with instant professional identity - badge of competence 'GAS SAFE ENGINEER'. But after five years, these GSR installers will find the renewal costs a little bit more difficult to bear, given they have had to compete with illegals for years, and that they have not made the kind of profits, or living they intended.

The proverbial will hit the fan with this pretty soon, and the signs will be a reduction in registrations and a rise in the number of small businesses going bust.

You might get a clue from this Self-employed business opportunity? No thanks | John Harris | Comment is free | The Guardian
about the way things are going, and how small business is just a feeder for professionals like accountants, bankers and insurers to make money.

If you are doing well from self employment, then fair play, I take my hat off to you, because your both a grafter and a thinker. But many, perhaps less skilled, less experienced are at the mercy of unbridled capitalism, and an over-supply in the great skills market - its my third recession, and I have not got the energy now to work long hours for minimum wage.

 

[GrahamM]

Thank you to all you people who actually gave some sensible advice. By the way I am a qualified plumbing and heating engineer and I do have commercial gas safe qualification. So for all you bigot's who moan about me like a 'have a go DIYer' knock yourself down a peg or two will you. I have currently started working for myself and wanted to know where I stood on fixing boilers and how far I can go with them. I know I can't touch gas and I don't fix anything I'm not competent with. I have actulay phoned Gas Safe and asked them and I have been told I can work on PCB's and fans, just not gas pipes and valves. I'm going to get this verified agian to make sure. But that was all I was after, and not to be moaned at by the dinosaurs on here.

Have a nice day!!!:smug:

How can Gas Safe advocate a non GSR person working on fans and PCB's, are PCB's and fans not all related to the combustion process with some PCB's controlling the fan and gas? Even more so on zero governed boilers.

This is a load of male cow dung in my opinion.

 

[kay-jay]

there are two ways to go about anything, the right way and the wrong way!

having said that i do agree that gassafe is an exploitative system, but it does gaurentee a basic level of competency.

 

[quality]

I do think that commercial registered folk are placed with different standards etc but they are better placed in industry than domestic registered gs chaps if they have the work.
if not pay your few hundred quid and step down the ladder

 

[GQuigley67]

no you shoulnt be working on boilers you don't even fully understand them by the sounds of it

 

[Deleted member 25704]

there are two ways to go about anything, the right way and the wrong way!

having said that i do agree that gassafe is an exploitative system, but it does gaurentee a basic level of competency.

Fair comment kay-jay, and there are few that would disagree with your statement.

But, I hope you will share in my questioning of some of your beliefs:

Right and wrong, pertains to moral law, and things are usually judged right or wrong by the consensus of the majority, in a democracy - so in order to judge right or wrong, we would have to be represented in some way, by those who make the decisions - who represents the gas installer? and do we trust them to make 'right' decisions on our behalf.

For example, licence to practice brings about better workmanship - corgi annaual report 2007, documented significant numbers of NCS, AR, and some immediately dangerous installations, on work which had been notified as 'competent' through the gas work notification scheme.

But, what about the notion of competence? can it be measured accurately using the multiple choice questions and simulated environments that are nothing like real work? Does an assessment taken in college, give an accurate measure of competence or competency in relation to the occupational role of a plumber or gas installer - would you bet your house on it?

So how can we be assured that the system is valid, reliable and rigorous? Who can assure us?

 

[GQuigley67]

only people that are allowed to work on boilers are gas engineers and now sparks as long as they are with a gas registered company with gas engineers.

 

[Macca2009]

If we [GSR engineers] don't do all the safety checks on the appliance when repairing, & an incident happens afterwards we'll be taken to task !!!
But, if you read the bulletin.......

http://www.User PlumbersForums.net ...F/Who can legally work on a gas appliance.pdf

Maybe when changing a pump...... we can wear our plumbers hat.

I think not!!

I wish Gas Safe would get these issues sorted out with the Government/Health & Safety & make it that only GSR engineers can buy gas appliances & any associated parts, & therefore be the only people to be qualified to carryout the work.

It could be so easy, use the registration number & password when purchasing at plumbers merchants, [they all use computers] Gives traceability....

Thanks for the link aggis, this is what I was after. Why do some people make such a deal. Thank you

 

[Macca2009]

Jesus I didn't think it would stir up such a debate. For all you lot that are just having a go at me and moaning about 'we pay our fees'. Just stop and have a think why i have asked the question in the first place. Yes I am a commercial engineer who is qualified. Yes I have now decided to try my hand at the self employed domestic market, as you will all know that the bottom is falling out of the construction side. I have asked the the question to get some advice, so I don't go breaking any laws. As the last thing I want to do is go to jail. I have spoken to Gas Safe and the bloke did say I can work on pcb's and fans for example, I am a bit skeptical about if the advice is correct. That is the whole reason I have asked this on here to make sure. I will be contacting Gas Safe again to double check. May I thank all of you who have given good advice on here, that what I needed not an ear full.

 

[Mike Jackson]

Before getting your knickers in a twist have a read of your first post. Nowhere do you mention that you are commercial Gas Safe. If you had put all of the facts in it wouldn't have got people so agitated.

 

[kirkgas]

Thank you to all you people who actually gave some sensible advice. By the way I am a qualified plumbing and heating engineer and I do have commercial gas safe qualification. So for all you bigot's who moan about me like a 'have a go DIYer' knock yourself down a peg or two will you. I have currently started working for myself and wanted to know where I stood on fixing boilers and how far I can go with them. I know I can't touch gas and I don't fix anything I'm not competent with. I have actulay phoned Gas Safe and asked them and I have been told I can work on PCB's and fans, just not gas pipes and valves. I'm going to get this verified agian to make sure. But that was all I was after, and not to be moaned at by the dinosaurs on here.

Have a nice day!!!:smug:

chech GSR website for the TB's there was one which caused a stooshie when it came out as it clarified who could do what inside gas appliances and it clearly stated that electrical components inside the boiler could be changed by a spark as long as no part of the gas train was worked on, so the question was asked what about boiler pcbs that had potentiometers on them to set gas pressure, the question got a blank, not sure if it has been superceded by now as it was a while ago

 

[kirkgas]

In technical terms to work on a fan, pump or pcb you would have to take the cover of the boiler and that is classed as being gas work. If you have commercial gas qualifications enrol at your local technical college to do the change over course from commercial COCN1 to CCN1 Domestic and the CEN1 qualification then you can register with gas safe legally, what you have to remember is that the gas industry is a legal mine field so it is better to pay a few hundered £ than risk a fine of thousands. Just my 2c.

pcb's and fans are inside the white decorative cover not the combustion box in some boilers

 

[northcarr]

You already know you have to be gsr as you have now said you have a com ticket

Hope someone can clarify this one for me.

I want to know where I stand on fixing domestic boilers.

I don't have domestic Gas Safe qualifications. Can I still work on boilers? in this I mean like replacing parts on them like PCB's and fans ect. I don't and never will touch anything gas, ie gas valves and pipework. Where do i stand on doing the other stuff? Am I allowed to so long as I know what I'm doing and competent?

Is anyone else in this situation and what are the boundaries.

Thanks

 

[kirkgas]

you cannot work on any gas appliance even in your own home without gsr qualifications because a gas explosion in your property puts other people and properties at risk

you need to read the guidence notes that come with the gas regs, as quoted earlier in this thread, you MUST be competant, not registered or have paper qualifications

 

[dancinplumba]

what if you have to undo screws to take the case off ?

 

[kay-jay]

Fair comment kay-jay, and there are few that would disagree with your statement.

But, I hope you will share in my questioning of some of your beliefs:

Right and wrong, pertains to moral law, and things are usually judged right or wrong by the consensus of the majority, in a democracy - so in order to judge right or wrong, we would have to be represented in some way, by those who make the decisions - who represents the gas installer? and do we trust them to make 'right' decisions on our behalf.

For example, licence to practice brings about better workmanship - corgi annaual report 2007, documented significant numbers of NCS, AR, and some immediately dangerous installations, on work which had been notified as 'competent' through the gas work notification scheme.

But, what about the notion of competence? can it be measured accurately using the multiple choice questions and simulated environments that are nothing like real work? Does an assessment taken in college, give an accurate measure of competence or competency in relation to the occupational role of a plumber or gas installer - would you bet your house on it?

So how can we be assured that the system is valid, reliable and rigorous? Who can assure us?

i should have been clearer in my post, when i mentioned the right way and the wrong way i didn't mean swapping parts and testing (although there is a case for this)rather i was alluding to being registered and being legal, and demonstrating the required competence through the acs.

but at the end of the day if joe bloggs blows up a house, is he not responsible irrespective of whether he is gsr or not??

 

[adam84]

I would just like to say that the level of knowledge and professionalism on this forum is extremely high, i have been involved in a similar thread on the ultimate handy man forum and the general feeling on that forum is that home owners can still work on gas appliances/fittings in their own properties for no fee, i have tried in vain to explain that is no longer the case, with elements of the general public still believing this to be the case Gas Safe need step up their efforts to educate people about gas safety and the law regarding gas work i feel that as professionals of the trade gas safe expects us to pay our fees and do their job aswell with regards to education.

 

[REDSAW]

i suppose thats why this is called ukplumbersforum and not ultimate handy man?.lol.

i also wouldnt think it to hard for gas safe to step in on these forums and deliver a be-all-end-all response to the questions asked by a simple 'yes' or 'no', i mean, its not exactly sticking their necks out is it?.

 

[Deleted member 25704]

rather i was alluding to being registered and being legal, and demonstrating the required competence through the acs

kay-jay, my response to your post was a bit confusing.

The point I wished to make, was that ACS assessment is not a reliable test of competence.

But, we just bow our heads and accept it. We might think that GSR leads to more work and better professional status - it doesn't. We will reflect on the first two decades of the 21st century as 'the great train-ing robbery'. With no one to represent our interests, the self employed are exposed to as much tax, as the CO lobby, HSE, GSR, Government etc, want to load on us.

 

[kay-jay]

kay-jay, my response to your post was a bit confusing.

The point I wished to make, was that ACS assessment is not a reliable test of competence.

But, we just bow our heads and accept it. We might think that GSR leads to more work and better professional status - it doesn't. We will reflect on the first two decades of the 21st century as 'the great train-ing robbery'. With no one to represent our interests, the self employed are exposed to as much tax, as the CO lobby, HSE, GSR, Government etc, want to load on us.

i agree with you. but just because the acs isn't a fully reliable competence standard and gas safe is all take and no give, would you be prepared to fly in the face of legislation and complete gasworks without registration and therefore illegally? i know i wouldn't.

which is the point i was trying to make about 'the right way' in my first post.

all confusion aside it appears we agree on the salient points

 

[secret squirrel]

The other day i needed an operation but my doctor was busy so i went to the vets, after all if you can operate on one animal then its got to be all the same meat and veg.

You wouldn't doing too bad with that really, you need more qualifications to enter vet school than to be a medical doctor! it is harder to get into vet school than dr school.

I've got a stanley knife, a makita and a head torch...... I may be able to assist.

 

[GrahamM]

kay-jay, my response to your post was a bit confusing.

The point I wished to make, was that ACS assessment is not a reliable test of competence.

But, we just bow our heads and accept it. We might think that GSR leads to more work and better professional status - it doesn't. We will reflect on the first two decades of the 21st century as 'the great train-ing robbery'. With no one to represent our interests, the self employed are exposed to as much tax, as the CO lobby, HSE, GSR, Government etc, want to load on us.

I kind of disagree with your comment on ACS.

What in your opinion would be a reliable test of competence?

To pass the ACS you must have some form of training/knowledge in Gas regulations & works. You must then put this training/knowledge to use and for they few days work safely.

At the very least you should take away with you the basic knowledge on how you should be working safely with gas. Wither you use that in your everyday work environment is another matter.

We then have to go through it again in 5 years time where any bad habits or complacency's should be addressed and again you should leave with the basic knowledge of safe working.

Passing a 45 minute driving test does not mean you are are suddenly Lewis Hamilton. What it does (or should) mean is, you have at the very least the basic skill-set/knowledge to drive safely, unsupervised on public roads and have been approved to apply for a license to do so. Just like the ACS qualification.

The ACS is not a complete package. It basically confirms that Joe Bloggs has the basic knowledge and skills to work with gas safely.

I did say "I kind of disagree with your comment". What I would like to see is a bit more time spent on various fires as I believe there is a lack of knowledge out-there from supposedly qualified engineers. Maybe this is due to a lot of engineers do not work on them often enough.

Just my tuppence worth.

 

[GrahamM]

You wouldn't doing too bad with that really, you need more qualifications to enter vet school than to be a medical doctor! it is harder to get into vet school than dr school.

I've got a stanley knife, a makita and a head torch...... I may be able to assist.

Just make sure you have a sterile surgical steel blade in that Stanley.