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Discuss Cast iron soil pipe jointing method in the Boilers area at Plumbers Forums

S

Sharp Point

Evening all, I’ve been asked to replace a cast iron stack on a listed building. The customer has ordered the required materials, I’ve just got to install it. What’s the modern day method to seal the joints?

Thanks
 
Depends will list a few

timesaver joint

Fernco

Drain connector (plastic)

Lead it in
 
I pulled down a cast stack today, you could have had that. I cracked the seems with an sds chisel and they were just putty like all the rest I've seen.
 
Timesaver heritage is what i would use a lot less hassle. Cheers kop

Screenshot_20181004-055320.png


Screenshot_20181004-055335.png
 
Old Fashioned way for me.
Caulk it, Lead it, Putty n paint to finish for me personally.
You'll enjoy yourself!
Use original style Cast Iron with ears and fix it using 6" Spout nails and Bobbins.

It's an old skill that should never be allowed to die and this is your opportunity to keep it alive.

For a real old fashioned authentic job you could do it off a rickety old wooden ladder. Take the existing ones down with trembling knees, sweat on your brow and spiders climbing about on you. Then use a raking out chisel and wooden wedges to fix the new one back.

However, this is 2018 and that is no longer allowed as you know.
When you're doing it though, give a minute to think of the old timers who worked with that stuff all day everyday, off a rickety old wooden ladder.
 
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Old Fashioned way for me.
Caulk it, Lead it, Putty n paint to finish for me personally.
You'll enjoy yourself!
Use original style Cast Iron with ears and fix it using 6" Spout nails and Bobbins.

It's an old skill that should never be allowed to die and this is your opportunity to keep it alive.

For a real old fashioned authentic job you could do it off a rickety old wooden ladder. Take the existing ones down with trembling knees, sweat on your brow and spiders climbing about on you. Then use a raking out chisel and wooden wedges to fix the new one back.

However, this is 2018 and that is no longer allowed as you know.
When you're doing it though, give a minute to think of the old timers who worked with that stuff all day everyday, off a rickety old wooden ladder.
That’s the way the old fella taught me along with huge lead snowboxes with fancy details
 
ANTIQUE-16-Long-IRON-LEAD-LADLE.jpg

My Method:-
Centralise the pipe in the joint. (use small wooden wedges to help if you like but take them out after the Gaskin is in place).
Put Gaskin in (Hemp/Tarred Hemp, twisted, dry).
Use a Yarning tool or something similar to drive it down to the base tightly. Make sure it does not pass into the pipe.
That stops the molten Lead from running into the pipe but it is also the most important part of the joint. In theory, the joint should not leak after the Gaskin is in place and tight.

Next comes the molten Lead.

I use an old ladle like the one above. It is cast iron. You will need something like it or something to withstand the heat. Lead melts at 621 F (328 C). That's damn hot. Your molten lead will be hotter as you need to be able to pour and fill the joint before it sets again. There is nothing worse than it setting half way through a pour. Heat travels, especially from something so hot, so you need to think of the handle conducting heat too. You don't want your plastic handled pan full of molten lead suddenly deciding it has had enough. I always get the Lead to a kind of pale Golden looking stage, that way I know it's hot enough. That's my rule of thumb though, I don't know what anyone else does.

Be careful to make sure the joint material at the base is dry (no water/moisture), molten metal and water don't get on well!
Wear face/eye protection. If you pour molten metal onto water, the water will instantly turn to steam (physics) and as a rule of thumb one cubic inch of water = 1 cubic foot of steam (very rough but not far out for the purpose of explanations like this), That will throw the lead out as a molten lead spray/spit that tends to stick to skin due to it having lost some heat on the way to you. It will still be well into the hundreds of degrees when it lands. Sorry to be graphic but if you've not done this before there are things you need to consider and safety is the most important. Do a risk assessment. No people beneath you, nothing to trip over, no mithering customers, you need to concentrate.

Yours will be easier than in that video as the joints will be mostly vertical. You only really need to wrap branches or offsets on the horizontal.
Pour in one confident smooth run until full.

Once the lead is set, caulk that using a Caulking tool. Just to tighten it up and drive it down a bit below the surface. Not too much as you do not want to crack the cast.

Once cool, mix putty and paint (messy but sticky and superb stuff), fill the top of the joint to a nice angle and strike it off smooth. Then once you've finished, give it a run round with a paint brush (with paint on) it will still be soft so go easy so as not to make marks in it.

Move on up!

I would advise you get an old timer to spend the day with you first time. Even if they only come in the role of an adviser. If you found one with a pan and ladle you'd be laughing.

They appeared to use glass rope in that video. I'm not sure how that would behave as I have never used it. I know it will stand high temperatures but I don't know how high.

Hope that helps. Sorry for war and peace!
 
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HSE is gonna love you lot so many things could go drastically wrong here, my advice stick to the timesaver method if its done properly it hard to tell the difference good luck . kop
 
Hello bogrodder / All,

When I watched the video I thought that I was seeing some kind of Plumbing Comedy clip !

Why would they yarn the joint in the vertical position and then lay it down and use the joint rope to pour the joint ?

After yarning the joint you would just pour in the Lead while it was still standing up - as long as it was safely standing - which it seemed to be when they let go of it after yarning the joint - it could have been secured / wedged on the Bench somehow if necessary.

In Years gone by I have done quite a lot of Cast Iron Soil, Waste and internal Rainwater Stacks with Leaded joints [a lot at Guys Hospital in London circa 1987] - including prefabricating Branch and Bossed pipe joints on a Site bench before taking them to connect to the Main Stack which was being erected - I would not be laying down the joints for pouring the Lead !

bogrodder -
Member LastPlumber has written a very good descriptive message to You - but to add to His excellent recommendations and advice I would advise that if you have a lot of joints to do you hire a Lead melting `Pot & Ladle` plus Burner & Gas bottle so that the Lead can be melted while you are working and kept molten while you are taking ladles of it to the joints.

Melting Lead in a Ladle is a `bit of a pain` unless you only have a couple of joints to pour - or you have someone else doing it for you !

Do You know whether you will be having to get the Stack Air Tested and witnessed by the local Building Control Officer ?

If it will be being Tested and if this is your first attempt at Cast Iron pipe and Leaded joints you will have to be very particular with every joint in order for the Stack to Pass an Air Test.

As has already been mentioned the `Yarning` of each joint correctly is crucial especially if Testing is going to be carried out.

Also - if the Stack is going to be Tested You should not be using `Putty & Paint` until it has been Passed - as that is part of the `aesthetic finish` to the joints and to prevent Rust on the joint collars where the Caulking Irons have chipped of the paint applied by the Manufacturer.

If You did apply the `Putty & Paint` before a Test the Building Control Officer would think that you had a Stack with multiple Air leaks and that you had `sealed` the leaks using the Putty & Paint and I don`t doubt that you would be instructed to remove it to expose the Lead joints for an Air Test to be carried out.

Good Luck with the Job.


Chris
 
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Chris you can't exactly make a horizontal joint vertical when it's in situe just to pour the lead can you. I think they where just showing you the how to on a horizontal joint.
 
I agree with @CHRISX regarding the pan and ladle if you do have a number of joints to do as it will save a lot of time, effort and boredom. It will also reduce the risk of you inhaling fumes.
You only mentioned one stack and I presumed that there would be around four or five joints to do. Obviously I don't know the height of the building or the route the stack takes.

What height is it, just out of curiosity?
Are there branches off it and is there an offset (vent), at the top?
 

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