Central heating leak found but not sure about how the plumber has welded the pipes

[king of pipes]

Re: Central heating leak found but not sure about how the plumber has welded the pipe

Looks like you have made your mind up to accept the builders word foolishly bud , just get it in writing off them that they will stand by the work for 12 months your won't have much luck in getting them to do any repairs after that period , keep part of their payment back until they do so and you are happy ,make sure you have a good home insurance policy I think you may be needing it in the future all the best k

 

[cammy0102]

Re: Central heating leak found but not sure about how the plumber has welded the pipe

I don't think some of you understand the difficulty of the situation. The refurbishment was finished with everything new in the house with new plaster in the walls, new floors, new kitchen, new bathroom. I know some of the copper pipes run under concrete in the kitchen, bathroom and part of the living room. Rest of the house it's just running under joists.

I don't want to rip everything out re-do because that will cost 10s of thousands and I will have to move out of the place which is not an option plus I have a flatmate/lodger in the flat with me.

So tell me realistic solutions. I don't think I'm going to be able to get say 10K from the builder to do the whole thing. Only option I have is to take him to small claims court but firstly they'll ask me whether I tried resolving amicably and gave the builder a chance to fix it. So far builder has promised to fix everything and he's sent his men around to inspect the loss of pressure in the boiler and to find the leak, numerous times. So I can't say he hasn't co-operated. I don't think I'm going to get 10K from him that way. And as soon as I take him to the courts, he'll stop co-operating with me.

What's paying council building regulations going to do?

Builder's plumber (yes he's probably a :nono: plumber) insulated all the copper pipes in the bathroom floor and put concrete over it. The bath has already gone in. But I could ask him to take it all out and re-do the plumbing in the bathroom and remove the plastic push fitting and all the other joints and have one straight 22mm pipe maybe with a T junction for the drain off.

I'm going to call a friend of a friend who's a plumber that works at a hospital so I'm guessing he's certified. I'll ask him for advice as well.

This is really stressful.

PS: The 2nd picture was taken before the guy could solder the joints at the top.

The main contractor I don't think saw must of the work. He was only in the building a few times. I gave the refurbishment work to to this guy and he's got multiple teams that does pretty big refurbishments so he's got a reasonable reputation to uphold.

 

[cammy0102]

Re: Central heating leak found but not sure about how the plumber has welded the pipe

Double post

 

[Dotty]

Re: Central heating leak found but not sure about how the plumber has welded the pipe

Caveat emptor.

Goes to prove that the bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweet taste of low price fades.

 

[cammy0102]

Re: Central heating leak found but not sure about how the plumber has welded the pipe

It wasn't 'low price' either. He was more expensive than one of the other contractors (I had 3 quotes). I went and checked one of his refurbishment at a multi million pound property in Hammersmith in London and I know he's worked/working with in other expensive properties (far more expensive than my flat).

Obviously had I known about all the dodgy or incompetent tradesmen back then, I would have done things differently (would have asked for certificates for the plumbers he used, kept a very close eye on the job, etc) but what's done is done.

I've just spoken to plumber friend (he's certified and works in hospitals) and he said get the builder to change the new work (he'll have to get his men to remove the bath, dig the floor again and replace the pipes) but leave the other pipe work in the rest of the house as it's going to be difficult to replace them now. Builder is certainly not going to pay me thousands to rip everything out and replace.

 

[cammy0102]

Re: Central heating leak found but not sure about how the plumber has welded the pipe

My plumber friend told me that central heating pipes should ideally be insulated everywhere not just under concrete to avoid heat loss. I know they are definitely not insulated rest of the house where the pipes are running under floor joists.

This is bloody frustrating. All they had to do was ask me for insulation - I was paying for all the material and the price they were charging was for labour.

I did see some grey foam insulation tubes in the kitchen so maybe he insulated the pipes under kitchen floor but not sure about the living room as I wasn't there when they did it. Is this the right insulation type?

The crappy plumber that 'fixed' the leak in the bathroom covered the pipes with this brown fibrous long strip. Not sure if it's any good?

 

[Riley]

Re: Central heating leak found but not sure about how the plumber has welded the pipe

Inconvenience over potential floods and damage to yours and your neighbours property and massive insurance claims. I know which way I'd be looking. Plus if something goes wrong within the 12 month "guarantee" period offered you by your builder youll still be having floors up and damage caused. Please don't think we don't understand as most of us on here are experienced and know what should be involved in a decent install. It sound to me like your boys have cut corners and that this is the tip of the iceberg in terms of trouble for you. I'd either be getting it done now or getting some money back from your builder now

 

[king of pipes]

Re: Central heating leak found but not sure about how the plumber has welded the pipe

We all feel for you mate but there really is no excuse for poor workmanship you paid good money for your project, your builder employed these people it is his responsibility to make sure they are qualified, supervised and experienced in the trade you are only as good as your last job this could reflex very badly on his business, I myself rely on recommendation for all my work never had to advertise I had 30 years working for a company and 5 more as a sole trader and I am always busy because I break my balls giving my customers a good job , I can't help you anymore than that mate i hope you resolve your problems regards k

 

[cammy0102]

Re: Central heating leak found but not sure about how the plumber has welded the pipe

Gents, could you please reply to this?

My plumber friend told me that central heating pipes should ideally be insulated everywhere not just under concrete to avoid heat loss. I know they are definitely not insulated rest of the house where the pipes are running under floor joists.

This is bloody frustrating. All they had to do was ask me for insulation - I was paying for all the material and the price they were charging was for labour.

I did see some grey foam insulation tubes in the kitchen so maybe he insulated the pipes under kitchen floor but not sure about the living room as I wasn't there when they did it. Is this the right insulation type?

The crappy plumber that 'fixed' the leak in the bathroom covered the pipes with this brown fibrous long strip. Not sure if it's any good?

 

[king of pipes]

Re: Central heating leak found but not sure about how the plumber has welded the pipe

That would have been hair felt lagging bud not the best but better than nothing in a ideal world insulate where you can under the joisted floors but its not essential, around boilers and cylinders is a building regulation , always insulate pipework under concrete or screed floors no excuse not to .

 

[Radioman]

Re: Central heating leak found but not sure about how the plumber has welded the pipe

In your previous post you where advised to obtain a copy of your builders public liability insurance plus the same for each self employed subcontractor. Did you do this or not? If no why? If yes then I suggest if your builder does not comply with rectification as suggested above you start a claim. As Croppie says, caveat emptor. And building controls should have been involved from day one.

 

[joni os]

Re: Central heating leak found but not sure about how the plumber has welded the pipe

Gents, could you please reply to this?

Wouldn't get too vexed about lack of insulation between ground floor and upper ceiling, Any heat loss remains within the structure. Different for ventilated spaces, such as suspended ground floor.

 

[joni os]

Re: Central heating leak found but not sure about how the plumber has welded the pipe

Gents, could you please reply to this?

Wouldn't get too vexed about lack of insulation between ground floor and upper ceiling, Any heat loss remains within the structure. Different for ventilated spaces, such as suspended ground floor.

 

[cammy0102]

Re: Central heating leak found but not sure about how the plumber has welded the pipe

Double post

 

[cammy0102]

Re: Central heating leak found but not sure about how the plumber has welded the pipe

Wouldn't get too vexed about lack of insulation between ground floor and upper ceiling, Any heat loss remains within the structure. Different for ventilated spaces, such as suspended ground floor.

I'm in the ground floor so the pipes running under floor joists could be losing heat in the sub floor (this was mentioned by my plumber friend last night) but this is least of my problems at the moment.

It seems the hair felt lagging the new plumber used in the bathroom to insulate the pipes is not the right stuff to use in concrete? Quick googling suggests it's not waterproof so concrete could still eat in to the pipes.

I've had a chat to another builder who I know uses qualified plumbers, electricians. He said write a polite email to the my builder/contractor and ask him to maybe re-do the pipework in the bathroom. He also said not to threaten to go the courts and keep a good relationship as the builder has been cooperating so far and has promised to fix problems. As soon as I take him to small claims court he'll stop fixing any problems and I certainly won't be able to get small claims court to order him to pay for a new refurbishment to rip out everything and re-do it all as it will cost tens of thousands.

Edit - This is a Victorian period conversion.

 

[Radioman]

Re: Central heating leak found but not sure about how the plumber has welded the pipe

The advice was a claim against his insurers via his PLI. Taking a trader to SCC is a last resort when all else fails.