Combi conversion, is it right?

[Murdoch]

Clutching and straws spring to mind ...

 

[Riley]

You’re going to really struggle to prove or disprove anything. It will all come down to contract. You will hide behind your dissatisfaction they will hide behind the vagueness of the quote if nothing was formally agreed. I would just move on I for one would not be changing pipework after a year if the system has been working for that period

 

[king of pipes]

I think we all agree your system could have been fitted to a higher standard but as i have said it's been fitted a year and it works all be it inefficiently, my advice you could try and make a claim against the company(trading standards route ) but why cause yourself more stress and worry after what you have been through, better to learn from your misfortune and employ a local respected gas safe company to improve what you have, reading between the lines you panicked when your system went down a combi was not the right choice but it got you through the bad situation at the time take some professional advice and it's then your choice which way you go. Regards kop

 

[Chalked]

The problem I see. Is that you accepted a price. The amount of work is irrelevant.
Two restaurants can charge differing amounts for the same meal.

 

[mrtibbs]

The problem I see. Is that you accepted a price. The amount of work is irrelevant.
Two restaurants can charge differing amounts for the same meal.

Because of the provisions of the 2015 CRA and the 2008 Consumer Protection from unfair Trading Regulations that isn't true, especially when they made claims that are patently likely to be misleading. Businesses are very limited in what they can say to consumers now and standards and prices are regulated in a way by those acts.

 

[Rob Foster]

Because of the provisions of the 2015 CRA and the 2008 Consumer Protection from unfair Trading Regulations that isn't true, especially when they made claims that are patently likely to be misleading. Businesses are very limited in what they can say to consumers now and standards and prices are regulated in a way by those acts.

I think a lawyers forum is better for you quoting chaper and verse about stuff we dont know about is probably just to inflate your own ego jog on

 

[mrtibbs]

I think a lawyers forum is better for you quoting chaper and verse about stuff we dont know about is probably just to inflate your own ego jog on

You need to jog on, your posts have been utterly pointless and are clearly designed to inflate your already inflated post count.

 

[rpm]

I think a lawyers forum is better for you quoting chaper and verse about stuff we dont know about is probably just to inflate your own ego jog on

You need to jog on, your posts have been utterly pointless and are clearly designed to inflate your already inflated post count.

Would you ladies kindly settle this outside with your handbags.

 

[Rob Foster]

Would you ladies kindly settle this outside with your handbags.

No problem I have a roast dinner to do have a nice day Rob Foster

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Now now lads

 

[Rob Foster]

Now now lads

all fine with me shaun - can you smell the roast pork ? we could start a plumbers and c/h engineers cooking program and go on CH 4 and be celebrities - I love Mary Berry

 

[ShaunCorbs]

all fine with me shaun - can you smell the roast pork ? we could start a plumbers and c/h engineers cooking program and go on CH 4 and be celebrities - I love Mary Berry

I can just about to put ours in

 

[rpm]

all fine with me shaun - I love Mary Berry

Guess there is no accounting for taste!

 

[Rob Foster]

Guess there is no accounting for taste!

pork or Mrs Berry ?

 

[rpm]

pork or Mrs Berry ?

Mrs Berry.

 

[Rob Foster]

Guess there is no accounting for taste!

i missed that but brilliant

 

[Rob Foster]

i missed that but brilliant

I think that my involement in this thread is over BUT IMHO
accountants always count my money and my lawyers always look after my ex wifes BUT people like US actually make,fix,design and install real things that keep people warm - NEVER LOSE SIGHT OF THIS WHEN YOU DO YOUR vocation - I love this business since 1979

 

[rpm]

i missed that but brilliant

Figured that one slipped past you

 

[Rob Foster]

Figured that one slipped past you

Porky Pig is nearly ready and we are 11 guests coming and counting but they bring the real stuff hey ho everybody

 

[Ric2013]

EDIT: Do you mean this law? The Water Supply (Water Fittings) Regulations 1999

There is a bit about hot water should arrive at the taps in 30 seconds on page 18 of this [https://www.wras.co.uk/downloads/pu...sessment_of_plumbing_in_private_premises.pdf/] document which refers back to the law you have quoted above. Note, however, that G18.4 is a guidance note and, as such, probably does not mean very much. Also, contained in that note is a suggestion that combi boilers will probably not be able to comply with this.

Let's say a customer asks me to fit a low water consumption tap in a bathroom and this pushes the time for the water to arrive hot from 20 seconds to 32. Is the plumber now required to spend a day to re-route the pipework to bring the time down to a reasonable one?

Take your point entirely about 3 feet, but sometimes that's how it is. As I've said before, without having been at your house, I cannot possibly say if the installer made the best of the situation or not, and that really is all any of us can say.

Working to a decent standard in the eyes of the law is one thing, but I always take the attitude that if my intervention leaves the house no less compliant than it was before I acted, then I have done my job.

It is very easy to sit in Whitehall and say how things should be done, but realistically, if I come across a cold water storage cistern that needs a replacement float operated valve washer, I do not insist on an entire new cistern installation because the existing one was installed in breach of the Water Supply (Water Fittings) Regulations 1999; all I do is advise, otherwise my customers will be on here complaining that I forced them to have un-necessary work done. Given that the regulations are not retrospective, as those in Whitehall are not entirely stupid, I am not convinced that a judge would find against me.

Quite honestly, I appreciate you had a pressing need to have the work done and so went for the first quote, but that would not suddenly make you gullible enough to believe the fitting was 'free'. If the ASA wants to make a prosecution for false advertising, that is one thing, but I cannot seriously believe you were misled by the offer of free fitting.

The impression I get is you weren't happy with the work. Quite possibly it was a sloppy job and you will win a court case. Let us know how it goes.

 

[mrtibbs]

There is a bit about hot water should arrive at the taps in 30 seconds on page 18 of this [https://www.wras.co.uk/downloads/pu...sessment_of_plumbing_in_private_premises.pdf/] document which refers back to the law you have quoted above. Note, however, that G18.4 is a guidance note and, as such, probably does not mean very much. Also, contained in that note is a suggestion that combi boilers will probably not be able to comply with this.

Let's say a customer asks me to fit a low water consumption tap in a bathroom and this pushes the time for the water to arrive hot from 20 seconds to 32. Is the plumber now required to spend a day to re-route the pipework to bring the time down to a reasonable one?

Take your point entirely about 3 feet, but sometimes that's how it is. As I've said before, without having been at your house, I cannot possibly say if the installer made the best of the situation or not, and that really is all any of us can say.

Working to a decent standard in the eyes of the law is one thing, but I always take the attitude that if my intervention leaves the house no less compliant than it was before I acted, then I have done my job.

It is very easy to sit in Whitehall and say how things should be done, but realistically, if I come across a cold water storage cistern that needs a replacement float operated valve washer, I do not insist on an entire new cistern installation because the existing one was installed in breach of the Water Supply (Water Fittings) Regulations 1999; all I do is advise, otherwise my customers will be on here complaining that I forced them to have un-necessary work done. Given that the regulations are not retrospective, as those in Whitehall are not entirely stupid, I am not convinced that a judge would find against me.

Quite honestly, I appreciate you had a pressing need to have the work done and so went for the first quote, but that would not suddenly make you gullible enough to believe the fitting was 'free'. If the ASA wants to make a prosecution for false advertising, that is one thing, but I cannot seriously believe you were misled by the offer of free fitting.

The impression I get is you weren't happy with the work. Quite possibly it was a sloppy job and you will win a court case. Let us know how it goes.

Thanks for the reference. Like you say, It is a guideline, this is likely to be more prescriptive for a large firm than it is on the small business. As for being that gullible, first of all, making claims like that is now prohibited so whether I was that gullible isn't strictly that important in terms of complaining about it, additionally, they have now stopped doing it, which indicates that they know they shouldn't have been doing it. However on a personal level, when you are having surgery and are worried you might not come back from it and it's cold outside and all you want is the house warm for your family can you really imagine that you'd be looking into it too much?

Thanks for the advice ,

Jeff

 

[Ric2013]

Good luck with it all.

 

[gmartine]

I haven't read the whole thread but I'd send the firm one or two official letters asking them to rectify the work and why. Assuming they refuse have the work done and then sue them for the cost of rectification. Give the law a clear and definable way to make a judgement on your case rather than the vagueries of an advertising claim that they know longer use. In the end this is an issue of standards rather than false advertising which is subjective, your system works and you agreed on the price, secondly a conversion pack could mean anything including all the sundries used for the installation. If you're not happy with the work, giving them a chance to rectify it is the normal and first course of action despite the time that has passed.

 

[mrtibbs]

I haven't read the whole thread but I'd send the firm one or two official letters asking them to rectify the work and why. Assuming they refuse have the work done and then sue them for the cost of rectification. Give the law a clear and definable way to make a judgement on your case rather than the vagueries of an advertising claim that they know longer use. In the end this is an issue of standards rather than false advertising which is subjective, your system works and you agreed on the price, secondly a conversion pack could mean anything including all the sundries used for the installation. If you're not happy with the work, giving them a chance to rectify it is the normal and first course of action despite the time that has passed.

I've written them a letter and will report back.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[mrtibbs]

I've written them a letter and will report back.

Thanks for the advice.

Reporting back. I made it clear in my letter that i wasn't happy, referenced the regs and the water rules i was told about and said i felt the claims of free fitting were unlawful and misleading and that the work was not of a good enough quality.

They immediately replied by post claiming everything was upto standard and denying that they'd offered free fitting.

In spite of saying my claims had no merit they immediately offered me 28% of the purchase price refunded into my bank. They then paid that money within an hour of my accepting it. This is very odd behaviour.

I've never experienced anyone deny the merits of a complaint and then offer a large sum of cash, so I was very confused. I took the cash, as frankly it was more than fair.

I do wish to point out that this was a very large firm with a bad reputation on this forum and amongst gas engineers in general and that this wasn't some poor bloke working hard on his own.

Thanks for all the advice.