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Commercial flueing

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Discuss Commercial flueing in the Commercial and Industrial Plumbing Forum area at Plumbers Forums

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diamondgas

Hi folks,

I'm new to the commercial stuff so forgive me if i question the dodgy stuff!!! LOL

I was asked to investigate a flueing issue regarding dripping water! I came across the image you are about to see, I hope! ( had limited joy with uploading images with success)

GP02.jpg

I'm hoping the image will expand and you'll see where I've pin pointed the clients issues :)

The three boilers attached to the header are Quinta 85's. The header goes into a conventional (Brick?) chimney (no idea of it's size) There's a condensate pipe exiting the chimney GP03.jpg

And a condensate at the end of the headier. Main problem is that condensate is dripping through the flue joints. Corrosion is evident at nearly all of the flue joints and I have an iky feeling something isn't right but no experience in commercial flue installation to know whether that's right!

There are no POC's by-the-way! Just condensate fluid!!!

I've found the biggest heal possible and kicked it back to the installers ... however I'd appreciate your view, if you are an experienced commercial engineer, to give me more experience when tackling this kind of issue :)

Many thanks, Steve
 
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well i have no idea steve,but i have had aristons on the domestic side of things do this by leaking via the metal to metal clamped air ducts where the flue raises slightly the condensate leaks though into the air duct and rots the top of the boiler pdq,where do these boilers source there combustion air from?
 
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gas man said:
well i have no idea steve,but i have had aristons on the domestic side of things do this by leaking via the metal to metal clamped air ducts where the flue raises slightly the condensate leaks though into the air duct and rots the top of the boiler pdq,where do these boilers source there combustion air from?
Click to expand...

Mate the commercial lot can flue faned straight into a chimney!!! as long as it's sealed it does the bizz...:lol: The Quinta is a fan flue boiler, the three in question run their outlet flue only into the "exhaust"! ventilation and air from combustion is taken via the boiler room connection to outside! Equivalent to fitting a fan flue boiler to a sealed chimney with enough ventilation! However this set up in question is uncomfortable in that it involves condensing boilers :)
 
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From what I can make out, is that part of the condensate drain coming out of the end of the header? It should be at the lowest point, which in my view would be out of the bottom
 
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CES said:
From what I can make out, is that part of the condensate drain coming out of the end of the header? It should be at the lowest point.
Click to expand...

You're right CES there's a connection at the end of the header that drops down into the condensate drain and also one that emerges from the old brick chimney, I'm assuming from a hidden flue connection, runs around the boiler room and enters the same condensate! Thing is there is also 3 X 4" fan flues entering a 14" header? Is that overkill?
 
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The brick chimney should be lined and the rest looks ok to me. Just had. A poo install when it came to dealing the flues. Quite comman on new installs to get the odd leak

My biggest concern is that the condense pipes all start in copper or brass. You'll be lucky if you get a strawberrys season out of them
 
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14" header for 4x4" sounds about right to me
 
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Having another look back there is no trap on the condese connections to prevent pocs coming back
 
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Its probably been engineered to death during the design stage. How old is the install? Its pretty common for leaks from flue joints in older systems. Can you follow the entire path of the flue btw?

Good call on the traps Simonjohns
 
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SimonJohns said:
The brick chimney should be lined and the rest looks ok to me. Just had. A poo install when it came to dealing the flues. Quite comman on new installs to get the odd leak

My biggest concern is that the condense pipes all start in copper or brass. You'll be lucky if you get a strawberrys season out of them
Click to expand...

It leaks like a syive!!!

Here's another picture .... GP05.jpg The flue from the three boilers rises to the elbow then drops to the chimney, hence I guess the additional condensate .... However regards lined etc? There is no 'modern' terminal? The terminal looked like a conventional brick terminal!!! Never got a picture of that though!!! :)
 
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i,d like to help but i fear my stupidity will confuse not enlighten is this a single skin stainless flue (ritevent are in your neck of the woods they got a new german name i will try to find it) what grade of stainless is it does it have the necessary seals in place the picture and my eyes arnt the best if there locking bands are they the right way round i think i,d press the installers for the designers name and any info they might have i know you,ve done all this stuff but it might help if you put it on the thread as theres more experienced people than me looking
 
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Id kick it back to the installers just as you did. Id also ask them about the terminal and chimney whilst you are at it, if you cant inspect the whole length of the flue then you know what to do.:90:
 
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My initial assumption is that the system install is between 2&4 yrs? Greatest concern is the amount of condensate out of the elbow .. and the initial corrosion around the 4" flues GP05.jpg Is there a certain grade flue supose to be used with condensing comercial boilers? And if so how do I recognise this?

Honestly I have stainless steal 'looking' flue that is coroding and it bothers me :)
 
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there is a grade of stainless for condensate i think its 316? ritevent are called schiedal they are on 01914161150 they are usually really helpful simonjohns is happy with the size of the header and he has a lot more exp in these matters all the same it might be worth posing the question is it too big i honestly dont know and buying oversize is a waste of money but the cross sectional area of 3 x4" is a lot less than the csa of that header
 
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My question I guess, end of day is .. Is it normal to come across stainless with condensing boilers flues leaking condensate? I'm talking a damp patch on the floor here, drip every other second!!! The 14" Header flue elbow is drippin continuously! You can see what looks like silicon around the seals that has diminished!

As said I've backhealed, but am concerned at the amount of liquid oozing! And wondered if that was the 'norm' if you know what I mean?
 
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diamondgas said:
My initial assumption is that the system install is between 2&4 yrs? Greatest concern is the amount of condensate out of the elbow .. and the initial corrosion around the 4" flues View attachment 4801 Is there a certain grade flue supose to be used with condensing comercial boilers? And if so how do I recognise this?

Honestly I have stainless steal 'looking' flue that is coroding and it bothers me :)
Click to expand...

tbh steve something is very wrong there at the end of the day pocs are escaping from that flue system cover yourself and ID the appliances
 
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i suppose different people work in different environments overseen by different people the norm in my world is a single spot of water on there polished floors is a flood but were not spending our own money silicon around the seals means to them the seals themselves have failed in that world cover your largest muscles in paper
 
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***mon Boyzzzzz ... were in the safe soze!!! This is boloks install but is it the norm? Or am I out of order and stainless steal instalations shouldn't really show signs of corosion? Big IF In Question :) Coz I seriously do not know if this is acceptable? :)
 
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being honest save yourself and screw the installer cover it in id,s make who ever them is prove beyond any doubt its the right size a suitable material correctly joined question that brick flue these people are relying on you to validate their rubbish dont do it
 
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No proof of fume spillage ... none! in fact there is none . Codensate through the seams does not consecrate "fumes" alas!!!

And even if so! It depends where the appliance is, when it comes down to comercial instalations! :)
 
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my typing fingers and my brain arnt connected that often so this may be rubbish but could the large header dilute the poc schiedal would know more about this and i dont want to harp on but the issue reguarding suitability of the material etc are still enough for you to distance yourself from this install
 
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Billybob150811 :::) I kmow what you mean and i have distanced myself 'responsibility' wise :) However for my own personal experiece i really would like to know if it is 'normal' to accept condenste fluid to 'drip' from the flue?
 
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