Commissioning paperwork

[lisawig81]

I'd be happy if he just payed what I initially quoted really and at least get some money back.

From a contractual point of view, he should pay what was initially quoted, regardless of any further works, this guy sounds like your typical tight fisted landlord. Don't back down, get the money you are owed. Keep sending him invoices for the outstanding amount, look into a debt collection company for enforcement. Not sure how that works for self employed. At least you know for next time! Good Luck!

 

[hammers4spanner]

I get this on occasions sometimes depending on who it is depends on what i do . Tenants from experience are usually a nightmare anyway .
Never go cheap for a landlord stuff um

 

[Percy84]

Update on this guys. Still not been paid and I've still not sent the commissioning paperwork off (still well within the 30 days). But I've been asked to go back and look at the boiler by the landlord because there is apparently a leak on the boiler now. I know for definite there were no leaks when I filled it and no leaks when I commissioned it. I've agreed to go and take a look but I was wondering if while I'm there i can cap the gas supply and say the boiler isn't safe as it isn't commissioned?

 

[stani]

If he's not paid you, go back take your boiler home with you.

 

[Scott_D]

Meet him there, see the cash first then fix and take it home.

 

[Percy84]

Unfortunately the boiler was bought by the landlord. I've filled in the benchmark paperwork but not sent it yet. So I was just thinking about going back and putting a notice on the boiler and capping it off as technically it shouldn't be used until officially commissioned. And he won't go to any of his properties he just deals with everything over the phone or via email. So I'm guessing not paying is something he does quite regularly.

 

[Scott_D]

Has he given a reason for not paying?

 

[Percy84]

Has he given a reason for not paying?

Yeah saying I took too long and I was asking too much as I requested an extra days labour. He said he normally gets a boiler swap done by one man in half a day. I quoted 2 days for 2 men as the boiler was on the top floor of a 3 storey house with a vertical flue onto a flat roof. Also had to fit 2 rads. There was that much stuff in the house that we had to carry the old boiler out above our heads and the same with the new one. There was no way it was possible with one man. Then the tenant was unreasonable, on the first day he let us in at 10.30 then asked us to leave at 4 then the job dragged out over nearly 5 days because he was just being awkward. One day he said he was running late in the morning so I just said ring me when he was home as I was only local, he rang at 2.30 in the afternoon so I basically wasted a day waiting for him. I also lost another job that I had to postpone because of it.

 

[Old Account]

If he's not paid you, go back take your boiler home with you.

I guess he isn't allowed to do so is he ?

 

[Old Account]

Yeah saying I took too long and I was asking too much as I requested an extra days labour. He said he normally gets a boiler swap done by one man in half a day. I quoted 2 days for 2 men as the boiler was on the top floor of a 3 storey house with a vertical flue onto a flat roof. Also had to fit 2 rads. There was that much stuff in the house that we had to carry the old boiler out above our heads and the same with the new one. There was no way it was possible with one man. Then the tenant was unreasonable, on the first day he let us in at 10.30 then asked us to leave at 4 then the job dragged out over nearly 5 days because he was just being awkward. One day he said he was running late in the morning so I just said ring me when he was home as I was only local, he rang at 2.30 in the afternoon so I basically wasted a day waiting for him. I also lost another job that I had to postpone because of it.

Honestly, I would all in the morning citizen advise bureau to ask where you legally stand. Afterwards I'd go to the customer call him once more and maybe record with another phone the speech, try to be popliteal but always coming to the point, mention the points you pointed out to us and ask him to make a payment before starting the work. If he doesn't pay, ( me personally) I would take the boiler off the wall cap the gas ( because it isn't commissioned ) and legally it's still your boiler u less the customer paid for it (but he will need a proof anyway), and then let him coming back to you. He will surely give you a call within 10 minutes. Then I would charge even more more on top for causing such a inconvenience to your business. Time, petrol, hours you spent for free, also this Nonsens back and forth. I wouldn't hesitate if it's were me- no one takes a Sod with me like this. I also would t care what other people and installer think ( but that's me, some rouge customer have to feel it that's not right).

 

[lisawig81]

If anything happens at that property the landlord is legally accountable. I'm sorry, but if he has been employing engineers who can fit a boiler, with a vertical flue, plus 2 rads in half a day, they are obviously cutting corners! Impossible to complete that work to standards! I would not re-attend until your money was paid... Not a chance. He is taking the p***! Tell him you will not be fixing any leaks until your initial quote/invoice has been paid. He knew the cost from your quote prior to works being carried out, Very frustrating! You are trying to complete gas works to a safe standard and this guy is basically willing to put his tenants lives at risk expecting the job to be done in 4-5 hours! Or... you advise him you want paying up front to re-attend... but then you run the risk of not being paid should the job be more than just a standard call out. I agree with matchless.plumb... You need to seek advice and this guy may need to be reported... he may be a member of the NLA or the RLA. I hope this works out for you I really do.

 

[Percy84]

If anything happens at that property the landlord is legally accountable. I'm sorry, but if he has been employing engineers who can fit a boiler, with a vertical flue, plus 2 rads in half a day, they are obviously cutting corners! Impossible to complete that work to standards! I would not re-attend until your money was paid... Not a chance. He is taking the p***! Tell him you will not be fixing any leaks until your initial quote/invoice has been paid. He knew the cost from your quote prior to works being carried out, Very frustrating! You are trying to complete gas works to a safe standard and this guy is basically willing to put his tenants lives at risk expecting the job to be done in 4-5 hours! Or... you advise him you want paying up front to re-attend... but then you run the risk of not being paid should the job be more than just a standard call out. I agree with matchless.plumb... You need to seek advice and this guy may need to be reported... he may be a member of the NLA or the RLA. I hope this works out for you I really do.

I've spoken to the tenant and he is happy for me to come and cap the gas as the landlord as been a nightmare with him. The tenant has just said come and cap it if I need to and he will ring his local council as his wife is severely disabled. He has had to go through the council before as the landlord has been useless and left them with no heat or hot water. Which I suppose if the council get involved it puts a bit more pressure on the landlord.

 

[lisawig81]

I've spoken to the tenant and he is happy for me to come and cap the gas as the landlord as been a nightmare with him. The tenant has just said come and cap it if I need to and he will ring his local council as his wife is severely disabled. He has had to go through the council before as the landlord has been useless and left them with no heat or hot water. Which I suppose if the council get involved it puts a bit more pressure on the landlord.

Absolutely shocking behavior! This guy is one of the reasons why the gas safety industry is in such a bad place! Hopefully the council will intervene and enforce the landlord to acknowledge his legal obligation...

 

[stani]

Having read the above I feel Gassafe register is over stepping the mark by telling us to register the boiler even if the bill has not been paid, their only purpose is to ensure gas is done to a standard, I cannot see where they would get any legal clout to make an installer register something that hasn't been fully paid for,

 

[Best]

I think the "leak" that the landlord now claims can be a problem to you in court if you ignore it. The landlord has the law on his side for faulty work (and he knows it) and can withhold payment for substandard work. That is normally the only legitimate reason of non payment of an agreed quote for an agreed job.
If you refuse to go and look at the "leak" to rectify it, then the court can judge it that you hadn't completed the work to a satisfactory standard - if the landlord uses that as an excuse.
You can imagine how it would look if landlord brought unanswered letters about a leak, plus photographs of water damage to a court.
So be careful to reply properly and professionally and keep records.

 

[Scott_D]

Have you been paid anything?
Did you take a deposit?
Do you know from the tenant what the leak is?

 

[Percy84]

Have you been paid anything?
Did you take a deposit?
Do you know from the tenant what the leak is?

Been paid a small amount, absolutely no where just the initial quote. Didn't take a deposit as the landlord bought the boiler so materials weren't a great deal. And the leak sounds like it's nothing to do with the boiler because I've had a different story from the landlord and the tenant.

 

[Vee]

Would not go down the route of capping. Get certificate sent to yourself. (You can delay by max time as you have 28 days). Take a look at the leak as he has to give you the opportunity to rectify if its yours. Take a camera and get pictures especially if its not a leak of your doing. Be patient. Keep records of communications and get as much in writing i.e. via SMS and email.

 

[Percy84]

Bit of an update on this post. I'm still owed £300 from this nightmare customer. I've registered the boiler with the manufacturer so the warranty is in place and gas safe have been notified. I've had the certificate sent to my own address but the customer is refusing to pay until he receives it. Would I be in the wrong legally to keep hold of the certificate as I think only the commissioning engineer can request a duplicate?

 

[rpm]

Offer to meet and hand it over in exchange for your money in cash, no old fiver`s mind.

 

[Chuck]

Would I be in the wrong legally to keep hold of the certificate as I think only the commissioning engineer can request a duplicate?

My opinion is that by holding the certificate hostage you are muddying the waters about whether you have completed your part of the contract. I'd send it to them by registered post and staple it to a final demand for payment. If they don't pay use the small claims court. Make sure you follow the procedures carefully, dodgy landlords know all the tricks, but the nice thing about being owed money by someone who owns a building is that they are certain to pay up eventually.