Copper to plastic

[kris]

Hi guys Kris here now i know this has probably been talked to death but id like your views anyway,, ive always used copper for the last 19 years and on the odd occasion ive used hep2o, all the building sites round here are all using either uponor phex or hep2o, i realise plastic you dont have the build up of fluxs etc but wondering if its time to change,, i started a job yesterday at my local football ground putting in bars, wc ,s lounge ,offices etc and theyve asked if i can do it in plastic to save the thiefs havin go at the copper, i picked up all the hep2o stuff yesterday and straight forward enough but the other makes i know nothing about, so id like your views on uponor phex and even hep2o, john guest im not too keen on i dont know why ,, and am i being a dinosaur ?? cheers in advance guys

 

[Ermintrude]

Only used JG and hep. Don't like plastic other than ufh just feels 'wrong'

 

[kris]

Im same as you its just all around me seems to be plastic and im still happy with copper, i was talkin to a guy i used to work with he was telling me hes on the sites now, hes a lot older than me and he reckons the time he takes to do a house with uponor is not much quicker than what he could do it in copper

 

[bigman]

Most of the new build companies get plastic piping and fittings at unbelievable low cost direct from the manufactures and with the obsession with health and safety they like not having hot work on site. I've used hep for a few years but the jg stuff has improved in the last few years but still prefer to use copper.

 

[stani]

Kris, it's progress, or we would all still be carry rolls of lead and doing soldered joints with a parafin blow lamp, it will take time but you will get used to plastic, it takes 1/2 hour to pipe up a downstairs with plastic, no laying on your back trying to solder in a 12 inch gap, trying not to set yourself on fire.

 

[SimonG]

Prefer copper but use jg, it has its uses.

Problem comes testing it. Bet theres not many people follow the mi's testing it You also get the diyers cutting it with a hacksaw and not using inserts. Definitely quicker, but you still need to know what you are doing imho.

 

[Ermintrude]

Had a race on a school once girls vs boys (boys in placca girls in copper) crimped - can't remember perhaps unipor? Any way plastic finished probably 15 mins quicker and looked like a shelf in b&q copper was a beautiful site to behold. Plastic sags when hot and needs loads and loads of clips , there is that Yorkshire stuff but that's like a rapist making a rape alarm in my mind!

 

[aligorgon]

I am on new build houses now, 3 storey, 14 rads, utility, cloakroom with hand basin and wc, 2 bathrooms and kitchen. guess how long they give us to 1st fix ... 1.5 days... best i can do is 3days. (thats me and a spark as there is no one else spare)no choice but to use JG speedfit its a total mess, i hate it, rough as a dogs ... but its modern houses for you. no pride whatsoever, just throw it in. heating is 22mm to a 4 way 10mm manifold and zone valves for each floor.on my own jobs i would only use it if say i had domestic services behind a wall or under a shower tray and didn't want any joints.

 

[stani]

I don't think you can beat a neat copper installation, but, it does take time, fixing clips, joints etc where if it's out of site, plastic is a lot quicker and easier to instal,
I've also come across some incredible wiped lead circs that must have taken forever to straighten and then joint, and 80 years later they were as good as the day they were made.
could you imagine a thread "I've just got a new hand cart" instead of a new van.

 

[brum]

No doubt copper is best but as posted new builds quite often in plastic,Have done app 15-20 in plastic we went for Polyplumb no probs at all pressure to 10 bar once (over enth apprentice on pressure pump).Had some hep fittings sent over had to use them-most leaked.When we use plastic always Polyplumb But copper always used where visible so it still looks the part.I would rec Polyplumb although not the cheapest but in my opinion the best always..always use barrier pipe not polybutyline

 

[kris]

Cheers guys . Mixed views there. We know copper can withstand the test of time but plastic hasnt been round long enough to know this. I realise plastics better for hard water aswell. Ive always thought of as diyers pipe and anytime i have used it its impossible to get nice neat and straight . I like the look of a well piped sytem in cooper but in plastic , that dissapears.

 

[AlexGas]

If that’s what they want – go for it, as long there are no rats or squirrels around.

 

[kris]

Has anyone used the uponor pipe??? Does it have linner all way through it

 

[Whyme]

Yeah uponor is good its got an ally layer in it so good for bending around and doesnt smack you in the face when you undo the roll. need special adapter fittings though which arent cheap (crimp but need the gun or compression).

 

[brum]

Cheers guys . Mixed views there. We know copper can withstand the test of time but plastic hasnt been round long enough to know this. I realise plastics better for hard water aswell. Ive always thought of as diyers pipe and anytime i have used it its impossible to get nice neat and straight . I like the look of a well piped sytem in cooper but in plastic , that dissapears.

Hi kris lag up pipes looks exactly the same this is what gets me spend time setting pipes .saddles etc great looking job in copper,Cover it in grey lagging looks just like a placcy job do cust really care or are they simply looking at price?
Plastic pipe and fittings have certainly taken away many of the trad skills we all learnt.But there is a place for this system in our modern society good point about rats etc they do love the plastic

 

[AWheating]

What its done is make the job easier for idiots and some good installers into bad. ive seen 10mm run the full length of a house to feed a rad, its only got a bore of about 6-7mm for god sake.

Mind you the prices on new build, what can they expect, cant complain about the standards of the work on these jobs when they are paying just above shelf stackers/ chicken pluckers wages.

 

[Ermintrude]

Cheers guys . Mixed views there. We know copper can withstand the test of time but plastic hasnt been round long enough to know this. I realise plastics better for hard water aswell. Ive always thought of as diyers pipe and anytime i have used it its impossible to get nice neat and straight . I like the look of a well piped sytem in cooper but in plastic , that dissapears.

You can do a lovely job in plastic but you need clips every 300mm and on radiuses, once pipe heats and expands to it can look bit guff. Piped a few houses in placca one length from manifold to rad and back wrapped in kooltherm strapped to joists. Copper looks awful when it's two years old covered in jizz and runs. Some gimps think cos they are using copper their work is the mutts and they don't need to wipe clean and buff with wool. Gets me agitated. Soldering with no damp rag for wiping down, should have gas bottle rammed up your anus

 

[Ermintrude]

Has anyone used the uponor pipe??? Does it have linner all way through it

The Yorkshire version on massive support at moment - same price as hep!

 

[Worcester]

Long chats with JG about this recently - they came and spent time on a typical retrofit site of ours to see where we could saved and have used plastic.

They were very honest, and only found a couple of places where they said that plastic could have been used, as plumbing in biomass boilers, heat pumps and buffer tanks / thermal stores often requires an unsupported length of over 300mm. They were also honest about the 'droop' when hot and how difficult it is to keep it looking neat under those conditions. Their final comment related to the expansion / contraction rate and the need to allow for that 1% - that's 10mm per m of length or 30mm on a 3m length!!!, so need to put some bends in there.

Their recommendation: use it where it won't be seen and we can accommodate the expansion, else stick with copper.

 

[Ermintrude]

Plus it's only good for 1 marsbar at 90c

 

[Whyme]

Uponor doesnt droop because it cant..

 

[kris]

Hi kris lag up pipes looks exactly the same this is what gets me spend time setting pipes .saddles etc great looking job in copper,Cover it in grey lagging looks just like a placcy job do cust really care or are they simply looking at price?
Plastic pipe and fittings have certainly taken away many of the trad skills we all learnt.But there is a place for this system in our modern society good point about rats etc they do love the plastic

Your defo right brum the customer doesnt care what it looks like but i do its just the way i was taught, but your right the neat look disappears when the laggin goes on,

 

[Worcester]

Uponor doesnt droop because it cant..

28mm full of water at 80° bet it droops.....

 

[Whyme]

Bet it doesnt. The bigger the pipe the more metal lining. Their 28mm equivalent is a pain in the arse to bend and thread.

 

[plumber0808]

I use polypipe as it's the cheapest, I would use hep if price didn't matter.

Polypipe seems exactly the same as hep just a bit cheaper, I don't like JG used it once and I just didn't get on with it so never again.

in the last couple of years it has creeped in for me more and more both for ease of installation and less joints. It does get expensive when using a few fittings. I use it on house extensions mainly for builders and I'm in and out in no time.

i use copper all the time but use plastic for its benefits. Never fit it on show