Copper water cylinder needs replacing??

[paul wenman]

Our indirect copper water cyclinder has started leaking. Not a flood but enough to wet the whole floor in the airing cupboard. Could not find any obvious leaks from pipe joints, shower pump etc. so called in a plumber. He cut away insulation layer at bottom and found heavy corrosion. He has recomended a replacement. I was surprised because I did not know copper cylinders corroded seriously - he said it would be caused by accumulated limescale deposits - we are in a hard water area and the tank is over 20 hyears old, maybe 30 (already here when we moved in).

I would like to be sure that this really is the tank gone, as opposed to the pipe joint at the bottom. Can anyone offer their views please? These pics are odd angles - the pipe is entering the tank bottom right.

Thanks

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Yea quite common, you've done well if it's over 20 years probably 1/8th full of rubbish since your in a hard water area

 

[rpm]

I changed mine which was probably the same age. 1 the old weighed a lot more than the new one due to the scale in the bottom and 2 it now warms up quicker so in theory saves money.

 

[paul wenman]

Yea quite common, you've done well if it's over 20 years probably 1/8th full of rubbish since your in a hard water area

But what actually causes the copper to corrode??

 

[ShaunCorbs]

But what actually causes the copper to corrode??

Limescale / ph of the water, flux residue from when the cylinder was made etc

 

[jtsplumbing]

Hard water area replace it with a stainless Steel one !

 

[king of pipes]

20 + years you have done well get it changed it will pay for its self in reduced energy costs over the next few years .kop

 

[paul wenman]

Hard water area replace it with a stainless Steel one !

I have read that stainkess steel cylinders are not made to the same quality ... ?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I have read that stainkess steel cylinders are not made to the same quality . ?

gledhill are very good

EnviroFoam Stainless | Gledhill

 

[king of pipes]

Copper cylinders still avalible bud if thats what you want changed two recently. kop

 

[townfanjon]

Next one wont last 20/30 years lol.

Put a stainless one in

 

[paul wenman]

Various reports out there analysing steel vs copper. This one is very clearly in favour of copper: Copper v Stainless Steel Hot Water Cylinders. Key extracts:

The University of Ulster has recently published a report which compares the performance of a stainless steel hot water cylinder with a copper cylinder manufactured to the exact same specifications.

The results of the report found that using a copper hot water cylinder on an exact like for like specification reduced the heat up time of the water by 28.8% over stainless steel.

The University of Ulster then went on to compare a standard copper cylinder with a standard stainless steel cylinder, and found the copper cylinder showed a 62.6% increase in the power output.

The report goes a long way to demonstrating the long term cost benefits of using copper hot water cylinders in your project, without even mentioning the copper’s superior bacteria killing properties, flexibility, long lifespan and recyclability.

 

[townfanjon]

Yes Paul , I have read these reports and do agree with them ( mostly )
However , in a hard water area the stainless come out on top ( in my opinion ) .
Your HW cost of your gas bill is very small in relation to your heating.

 

[Dkdc71]

The quality is not in the cylinders like it was in the older ones so newer cylinders are been replaced more frequently

 

[ShaunCorbs]

The quality is not in the cylinders like it was in the older ones so newer cylinders are been replaced more frequently

Yes agree but why do you think that is ?

 

[Dkdc71]

The older cylinders were a thicker grade all the newer one's are the minimum thickness they can get away with .had a few insulated cylinders perforate like a teabag under the skin away from seams or connections just bad copper ,a lot of recycled metals have been recycled so much the goodness is gone out of the metal now

 

[ShaunCorbs]

The older cylinders were a thicker grade all the newer one's are the minimum thickness they can get away with .had a few insulated cylinders perforate like a teabag under the skin away from seams or connections just bad copper ,a lot of recycled metals have been recycled so much the goodness is gone out of the metal now

Good reply also the care and attention has gone and washing / cleaning of the flux has gone to the wind a bit also

 

[zzzjim]

My antique cylinder had a anode pinched into the middle of the bottom dome ! ( Was weeping , drip,drip )

 

[Ric2013]

Report is pointless if you are trying to apply it to real-world installations. Better heat transfer on an exact like-for-like basis if cylinder is copper. Bit like saying concrete tiles on roofs are defective because if made same thickness as slate (like-for-like) they don't last. Or that MDPE water mains are defective because they don't stand the pressure if made as thin as copper ones.

A stainless cylinder will hopefully have a longer coil to compensate for the fact that it doesn't conduct heat as well as copper so probably won't be like-for-like at all!

 

[Dkdc71]

Any of you lads remember drilling and fitting the coil yourself back in the old days ..lol

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Any of you lads remember drilling and fitting the coil yourself back in the old days ..lol

seen the old man do it and a immersion boss

 

[Dkdc71]

You must be talking about the old immersion kit done it about twice a big brass flange cut it out and two notches into cylinder to slide the under flange into it ,done a few off the coils alright use to dread them I was the youngest and always got that job lol fecked up the odd cylinder as well lol done my first cylinder as a bet in 87 with an uncle who was the plumber I was only 16 told him I could do that off with you so he sad lol and it was perfect he gave up doing them then lol

 

[ShaunCorbs]

You must be talking about the old immersion kit done it about twice a big brass flange cut it out and two notches into cylinder to slide the under flange into it ,done a few off the coils alright use to dread them I was the youngest and always got that job lol fecked up the odd cylinder as well lol done my first cylinder as a bet in 87 with an uncle who was the plumber I was only 16 told him I could do that off with you so he sad lol and it was perfect he gave up doing them then lol

yea thats the ones

 

[Best]

Any of you lads remember drilling and fitting the coil yourself back in the old days ..lol

Yea, Yorkshire 22mm Conversion coils that you had to drill 2 holes - bottom one tight fit and top one a large hole for coil to be screwed through. Large split copper washer inside, copper washer with rubber washer outside. All held with a black plastic tube supplied with each coil.
They lasted often 20 years or more sometimes until the rubber washer needed a replacement kit to fix weeping

 

[Best]

Would have been quicker replacing the old cylinder and also away to the scrap with it