DIY Project To Zone My House

[Richard at Home]

Good evening and a happy new year to you all

I welcome any comments and feedback to my project I am looking at starting in 2013

now I know all this sort of thing can be done with many of the costly out of the box solutions that probably cost more than the boiler itself

What I am looking at doing is to create a heating system that has at least 3 Zones

I believe I could do this with some changes to the main Pipe work and 3 motorised zone valves and an additional time clock


Reason for project

During the day one member of my family is at home and requires heating to be on for 4 rads in part of the house.

Currently I am heating all the house all day when only part of the house needs to be heated

My daughter-in-law is also at home some times when not at Uni and may need her front room heating.

Now my logic is to have the secondary time clock switching the water flow between parts of the house during the day and in the evenings opening all valves to heat the complete house

Now I know this could also be done with the new wireless digital TVRs but this expense would be significant


I will add to this post as the project develops

If you have any questions or would like to bounce ideas or comments please reply and this may become an interesting post.


Thank you for your time

Best regards

Richard

 

[leethegasman]

Good evening

Just purchased Automatic by-pass valve Honeywell DU145

Now looking for 50M of JG Speedfit Layflat polybutylene pipe coil 22mm

Phase 1 is to install a common return that captures all rads.

I will be installing this first as it will not affect any of the current setup

estimated install time including drain and connect to all radiators 2 days

Day 1

Clear Space ( General )
Make plan of layout path for new pipe work once all space is made available.
Lay single floor boards down the length of the loft across rafters to give flat base for the pipe to lay on
Install many clips and clip pipe work in.


Day 2

Drain system,
Remove all current copper and plastic pipe that is currently associated to the return only.
Connect all return pipes from radiators back into the new run of 22m Pipework
Fit bypass valve
Refill and test.

I will keep you updated.

Regards
Richard

Common return ?

 

[Howsie]

Thank you I have worked hard on it

Would anyone like to see 1 pic of the start of the extention

Did I miss them?

 

[Koogatubac]

Common return ?

Common return - normally referred as primary return, all rads return pipes are teed onto

 

[SimonG]

I see the forecast is for a cold snap.

 

[leethegasman]

Common return - normally referred as primary return, all rads return pipes are teed onto

When I did muti zones on houses eg zone up rads zone down rads I used to follow drawings installing flow and ret for up zone then flow and ret for down zone never had any problems , the lads that used to install flow for up zone flow for down zone and one common return (to save time as one less pipe installed )used to have complaints of radiators getting hot when they should not be.(three tee rule)

 

[TBServices]

When I did muti zones on houses eg zone up rads zone down rads I used to follow drawings installing flow and ret for up zone then flow and ret for down zone never had any problems , the lads that used to install flow for up zone flow for down zone and one common return (to save time as one less pipe installed )used to have complaints of radiators getting hot when they should not be.(three tee rule)

I had to modify an entire estate of houses with a common return to prevent back flow issues after some other plumber bodged the jobs badly.

 

[AWheating]

make sure your clips give you 20-25mm of height to get the lagging on, cable tie the lagging around the fittings to keep it from popin off.

tek sum pictures so we can see how your getting on.

 

[Dannyparty92]

What's the three tee rule? Surly it's not only three cups of tea a day that's mad! But seriously I would like to know .

 

[TBServices]

What's the three tee rule? Surly it's not only three cups of tea a day that's mad! But seriously I would like to know .

You should always tee separate zone returns into a common return close to boiler, rather than having rads with separate flows but a single return. The cylinder should always be the last return to enter boiler.

 

[Dannyparty92]

Thanks TB.

 

[kay-jay]

Common return - normally referred as primary return, all rads return pipes are teed onto

not quite,
the primary return is the return from the main heating circuit, the common return is the last leg of the return to the boiler after all other zones and the cylinder return have joined.

it is called common, as it is the only part of the system that is downstream of all return points from zones.

 

[R1CKY]

What's the three tee rule? Surly it's not only three cups of tea a day that's mad! But seriously I would like to know .

Three tee rule as I recall is, starting from the primary flow, 1st tee = Open Vent, 2nd Tee = Cold Feed, Final Tee = Cylinder return. I think that is the three tee rule! I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong!

 

[nickelarsed]

I thought it was the order or way that your cylinder.heating and bypass returns were piped up to avoid reverse circulation. But can't actually remember what the rule is since I don't install whole systems really, but I know the cylinder is the last connection after bypass and central heating return. I think that's part of it

 

[kay-jay]

I thought it was the order or way that your cylinder.heating and bypass returns were piped up to avoid reverse circulation. But can't actually remember what the rule is since I don't install whole systems really, but I know the cylinder is the last connection after bypass and central heating return. I think that's part of it

yes. you can (and will ) have a whole bunch of tees if you are doing a few zones. as long as cylinder is last and vent and feed first all others go just before the cylinder and where possible close to the boiler so if needed the common return can be upsized so as not to affect flow when a bunch of returns bottle neck into this leg.

 

[leethegasman]

I thought it was the order or way that your cylinder.heating and bypass returns were piped up to avoid reverse circulation. But can't actually remember what the rule is since I don't install whole systems really, but I know the cylinder is the last connection after bypass and central heating return. I think that's part of it

Yes it is 1st T vent (only in vented htg)
2nd T cylinder return
3rd T heating zone
But also must be piped correct I went to so many property's where this rule was broken on new build where when one zone is on and rads in off zone on also
And Richard will do this with a common return on the heating.
UFH training today

 

[Howsie]

Last tee cylinder return, not second.

 

[leethegasman]

Just to start off I will not take any responsibility if any one uses or takes any advice from this post it is purely how I was shown by the people I worked with as an apprentice and the original 3 T rule which I have never installed due to my young age ? As this type of pipe layout is very old school and would never be installed today and has not for a lot of years, but the principle is that you always Have the return from the cylinder piped to the centre of the tee and (which I and the people I worked with call the three T rule which may be wrong but it just what we call it as reminds you of the importance of correctly putting your tees in to stop the possibility off back circulation, and with more heating systems having more than one heating zone this is very important on paper it does not seam important and when I worked for a company that had 70 installers working for them they would not all follow what I call the 3T rule and most of them thought I was talking crap but I was the one sent to sort it out when they had moved in to there brand new home and when it got to the summer some of the radiators would get hot only way to sort out lift up all there new carpets and re pipe using the rule and did this to lots of new build homes other installers had fitted out not following what I call the 3 T rule in there 1st fix, having not been to collage in the last 24 years there may be a correct name for this some one who has just finished collage may know, I have done a quick sketch of how the three T rule started but has no importance in how we install today,also the way I install not going to go in to to much detail you people that install for a living will no what is what and if I have missed any thing it was a quick sketch looking at the way to correctly Tee in your returns,View attachment 10125but would be interested how many of you do what I call the 3 T rule as most of the people I worked with on the company I did not do my apprenticeship with thought what I call (you no) was a load of crap sorry for the long post

 

[leethegasman]

 

[gazzamikes]

These threads make me dispair after a while. We have exactly the same on the sparky forum. I appreciate people 'professional diyer' come on here and ask or in this case state what they are doing be it totally wrong and against regs etc then try to argue the toss when the are corrected by true professionals who train for years and take every opportunity to gain experience. I worked with a maintenance engineer when I was working in a factory (I am a 6 year served mechanical engineer trained and sparky) he had skills don't get me wrong, he was a professional diyer I went to to carry out periodic on his electrics, absolute shambles! Have your trade and stick to it. Do you carry out your own medical work too? No but your happy to mess with lethal systems of electricity and water. When I resign the van I might have 'better than a professional diyer' on it!

 

[Keefy]

I get dizzy looking at the pics on this forum.

 

[Richard at Home]

View attachment 10126

This layout looks very simular to how mine will look when i have finished

The common return to the boiler will be about 50m in 22mm

Then i will add the Zone valves one at a time on the new feed runs as i work through all the Rads

Thanks

 

[Keefy]

Sorry (and no offence btw) Richard, had to point out the definition of 'simular' because it made me laugh. :wink_smile:

Simular
noun 1. a person or thing that simulates; pretender.


adjective 2. simulated; false; counterfeit.

3. imitative; simulative.

 

[SimonG]

Cold spell supposed to last three weeks.

 

[Howsie]

Just to start off I will not take any responsibility if any one uses or takes any advice from this post it is purely how I was shown by the people I worked with as an apprentice and the original 3 T rule which I have never installed due to my young age ? As this type of pipe layout is very old school and would never be installed today and has not for a lot of years, but the principle is that you always Have the return from the cylinder piped to the centre of the tee and (which I and the people I worked with call the three T rule which may be wrong but it just what we call it as reminds you of the importance of correctly putting your tees in to stop the possibility off back circulation, and with more heating systems having more than one heating zone this is very important on paper it does not seam important and when I worked for a company that had 70 installers working for them they would not all follow what I call the 3T rule and most of them thought I was talking crap but I was the one sent to sort it out when they had moved in to there brand new home and when it got to the summer some of the radiators would get hot only way to sort out lift up all there new carpets and re pipe using the rule and did this to lots of new build homes other installers had fitted out not following what I call the 3 T rule in there 1st fix, having not been to collage in the last 24 years there may be a correct name for this some one who has just finished collage may know, I have done a quick sketch of how the three T rule started but has no importance in how we install today,also the way I install not going to go in to to much detail you people that install for a living will no what is what and if I have missed any thing it was a quick sketch looking at the way to correctly Tee in your returns,View attachment 10125but would be interested how many of you do what I call the 3 T rule as most of the people I worked with on the company I did not do my apprenticeship with thought what I call (you no) was a load of crap sorry for the long post

I'll send you some full stops for Christmas.

 

[SimonG]

Wonder if we'll get any snow?