External stopcock sheared off, 1" rod then nut exposed, can i turn the nut

[daniel121]

At the moment i'm going through the process of installing two new bathrooms, in order to do this i need to turn off the mains supply. The internal stopcock (gate valve) is only one inch from the mains supply and will not completely shut off. It's lowest flow rate is just before it is fully closed then it increases again.

I don't think it is possible to cure this problem without shutting off the mains outside and replacing it (please tell me if i wrong). Therefore i have looked at the external stopcock which is about 3 foot down and inside my boundary. I can see that it has been damaged in the past and whatever was there has sheared off. What is left is a 1" rod with a nut sat on a round plate. I can feel a gap between the nut and plate/washer and it seems that the rod and nut is one. Can i turn the nut to shut off the supply or is this independant of the rod and a big no no.

As you can tell i'm by no means a proffesional and would greatly appreciate your advice. Thankyou

 

[WaterTight]

Google gate valve. If this is what you're describing it is unlikely to be your internal stopcock - or at least it really shouldn't be. you may have another somewhere.

 

[daniel121]

It definately is a gate valve and 1" on is where the copper pipe is merged into the Larger plastic mains, this then goes through the wall, underground directly to the external stopcock. I have been investigating and am aware that it is not suitable therefore i really need to change it, hence my problem with the outside stopcock, any help with the stopcock outside?

 

[daniel121]

It definately is a gate valve and 1" on is where the copper pipe is merged into the Larger plastic mains, this then goes through the wall, underground directly to the external stopcock. I have been investigating and am aware that it is not suitable therefore i really need to change it, hence my problem with the outside stopcock, any help with the stopcock outside? (sorry think i posted this twice) thank you for taking the time to reply to my post.

 

[WaterTight]

I think - from what you're describing - that your external stopcock is the type which is just a small square metal bolt type thing. They are quite old. You can buy stopcock keys to fit the various sizes.

Edit: Actually re-reading your post I'm not so sure. Await the cavalry. Someone might get the measure of it better.

 

[GQuigley67]

if you cant get your external stop tap off then you could look at freezing the pipe, bit of a risky job but if you managed to freeze the pipework you could remove gate valve and replace with a stopcock, or leave gate valve permanently open and fit stopcock just after it if its too tight

 

[daniel121]

I guess i'll have to call the waterboard, i think it must have been a square head bolt, if all i had to do was buy a key i'd be over the moon. problem is whatever the key would grip onto has sheared off. All that is left is a nut on the ground with a rod about 1cm in diameter protruding upwards about an inch. My hope was that the nut is linked to the rod and would turn in normal use along with the key, as i think i could get to that. I'm too much of a chicken or sensible to suck and see, don't won't a geezer in the front garden.

As i understand it (wessex water) will only pull there fingers out if theres a leak or the problem is not on my boundary. I have a feeling that it will takes weeks, cost an arm and a leg and i'll have to persuade them i did not do it (avoid prosecution). Would a plumber be able to replace an extertal stoptap that is within my boundary?, i presume not as the water would have to be turnt off further down the line.

 

[daniel121]

The problem with freezing the pipe, well i think its a problem is that i only have literally an inch between the valve and the plastic main feed in

 

[GQuigley67]

as a temporary fix go for what i suggested, leave gate valve fully open, freeze pipe afterwards and cut valve in if you can that is

 

[daniel121]

Just checking is 1" a suitable enough distance between the valve and the main feed to freeze the pipe. i thought that because i cant turn off the valve it would freeze the valve also, plus could it damage the mains feed. I have a horrible feeling that if it was freezed and i could remove the valve i would only have a damaged chunk of ice no bigger then 1" wide holding back the mains pressure.

 

[GQuigley67]

post a picture if you can and we may be able to offer a better idea of the situation

 

[WaterTight]

Is it not possible to fit a stopcock further down the line and freeze after the gate valve as has been suggested? You want to get a plumber to do it though. Preferably one with a freezing machine rather than spray as if it goes wrong you are in trouble. And from what you're describing I would say the nut after the rod won't turn with the rod. For a start turning a nut clockwise tightens it.

 

[daniel121]

As you can see it T's off straight after and a small length of copper between the valve and the feed, is freezing still viable or do i have to try and solve the external stopcock.

 

[stevetheplumber]

if its on your property its unlikley that its the water boards stopcock theirs is usually outside your garden in line with the one inside
id dig it out and change it live you need a big hole and something of the ground to keep you dry trick is to wait till water is above the stopcock so it doesnt spray every where

 

[WaterTight]

what is further to the left of the picture? because you might be able to freeze both pipes after where it tee's off and fit appropriate valves to eliminate the gate valve.

 

[jackyp1234]

Just get ya grips on the head of the gate valve

 

[daniel121]

The inspection chamber is just inside my fence 1 foot and it would be outside my boundary. How do plumbers feel about doing this job, pretty messy would i get many takers

 

[GQuigley67]

if your paying then yes

 

[daniel121]

The pipe only continues to the left by about a two feet to a sink, which has isolation valves, thats ok. The pipe which is coming towards us on the pic goes into the floor straight away, about 5" of concrete/screed. Its situated in a very small shower room and the pipe reamerges in the same room before shooting off to feed the rest of the house. There is a small section before it feeds the shower and toilet where it could be froze and a valve fitted. The thing is i'm not confident about how long the pipe/connections and valve will hold up, plus i'd like to ideally get them out of the grime/ run off from shower room and make them a bit more accessible. My plan was to tank, stud the wall to create a cavity and use backerboard to tile onto with an access panel to the stopcock.

 

[tony diggs 69]

call up water provider . they have a duty to change the stopcock (external) if there is a problem with it . Explain that if you have a problem inside your house and it floods they could be liable as the stopcock is essentially there property

 

[ADM360]

As i understand it (wessex water) will only pull there fingers out if theres a leak or the problem is not on my boundary. I have a feeling that it will takes weeks, cost an arm and a leg and i'll have to persuade them i did not do it (avoid prosecution). Would a plumber be able to replace an extertal stoptap that is within my boundary?, i presume not as the water would have to be turnt off further down the line.

Wessex are normaly pretty good imo, give them a call, last one they did for me was done on a three day job, bloke was there next day and that was only a locate job, if you ring up and tell them that you have a leak/ dripping tap inside your property and that you internal stock is not work, so you can't fix the leak/ tap! and on unearthing the main stopcock out side you are unable to turn that off either, should be a 3 day job might be 24hr depending hoe thick you lay it on, all you have to remeber is that the outside stopock is there responsability, most jobs to repair/ replace boundary stopcocks are free.

hope this is of some help!!

where are you I'm in south somerset, if need "your plumber to give them a call".

 

[stevetheplumber]

The inspection chamber is just inside my fence 1 foot and it would be outside my boundary. How do plumbers feel about doing this job, pretty messy would i get many takers[/QUOTE
if its inside your fence it will be yours not the waterboards yes youll find someone to do it if your paying id charge you min 250 to dig out and replace might be cheaper where you are

 

[stevetheplumber]

you will not be able to freeze it if theres any flow in the pipe even a dripping tap will stop it freezing

 

[WaterTight]

I've frozen pipes where drips are occuring. But it has to be slight. Last time was a rad valve. Wipe it dry and in about 45 seconds tiny amount of dampness appeared around spindle, after 90 seconds tiny little reservoir around spindle. Managed to freeze that. Also froze a pipe feeding a dripping tap but again no more than one drip every minute. And you could always jam something over the end of the tap and hold on for ten mins, or if a rad valve molest it with an ounce of lsx.

 

[GQuigley67]

if the stopcock in question is the one in your boundry line, then it is YOUR property and the water board wont be fixing it for free