First boiler swap of the new year

[Ray Stafford]

Yep, I can confirm the independent + is also 7 years warranty out of the box.

Although it isn't miles cheaper than the logic + now.

 

[smtplumbing]

ray any difference between the boilers

 

[hammers4spanner]

Don't eff around. Riddor the idiots.

how many have actually had results from a riddor?

 

[Ray Stafford]

ray any difference between the boilers

Yes, I understand from people who actually open the boxes that there a couple of bit on the independent that are plastic, when they are metal on the logic +.

I don't think there is much to choose though.

 

[lame plumber]

how many have actually had results from a riddor?

no feed back on any I have reported!

 

[Dotty]

how many have actually had results from a riddor?

Dunno.

But it gives you a warm glow inside......

 

[hammers4spanner]

no feed back on any I have reported!

what was the issue?

 

[Mike Jackson]

Back when CORGI were still the governing body they investigated a couple of jobs that I RIDDORed.

As well as the RIDDOR I sent them a report on each job.

This was the first report

To CORGI Complaints

From Mike Jackson

Ref. Mr Jennings, * Mill Lane, Hastings, East Sussex, **** ***

Mr Jennings has asked me to contact you on his behalf regarding a gas installation to the above address carried out at the beginning of this year.

The following letter details the findings of a very brief visual inspection. In view of the number of faults found I have capped off the gas supply at the meter outlet.

The Installation work was carried out by David Mammone also some times trading as Fairlight and Beckley Heating (or Plumbing). They are unsure as to whether he is CORGI registered.

Despite several requests Mr Mammone has not returned to rectify any problems.

Mr Jennings can be contacted on *********.

My mobile number, should you wish to contact me, is ********.

I would appreciate your help in resolving this matter as Mr and Mrs Jennings are in their mid seventies and I have had to leave them with no heating or hot water.

Mr Jennings

Ref. Gas Installation to the above property.

As requested I have carried out a brief inspection of the gas installation works carried out at your property.

A visual inspection only revealed the following faults :-

1. Potterton Performa 24 Combination Boiler fitted in Garage.

1. The boiler does not appear to be fixed securely and the top hanging bracket is severely bent.
2. The gas pipe feeding the boiler is unsupported, severely flux contaminated, undersized and does not appear to be sleeved where it passes through the wall.
3. The flue is very poorly fitted, not properly sealed where it passes through the wall and is not fitted with a terminal guard.
4. The safety valve has not been connected.

1. The Baxi back boiler and fire front in the lounge have been left connected to the gas supply despite the heating system having been transferred to the new boiler.

A more thorough investigation is likely to reveal further faults but the visual inspection revealed enough faults to convince me that it was unsafe to leave the installation connected and I have, with your permission, capped off the gas supply at the meter outlet.

Yours sincerely,

M.A.Jackson.

The local inspector attended this job with me and he took 4 sides of A4 worth of notes on the job. It turned out that the installer wasn't CORGI registered and the subsequent report was sent to the HSE to back up the RIDDOR that I had sent. As far as I and the inspector at the time am aware no action was taken by the HSE.

This is the report on the second job. I attended because the householder was a friend of mine and was concerned that she could smell gas despite calling the installer back on 3 occasions who had tested and said that there was no leak. I attended expecting to find that she was imagining the smell and thinking that I could put her mind at rest.

Ref. 4 Something Road, St. Leonards-on-sea, East Sussex,
Date of inspection Thursday 12[SUP]th[/SUP] June 2003 by M.A.Jackson A.I.P. R.P.

An inspection of the gas installation to the above property was carried out at the request of Ms. Blankety Blank currently residing at the above address.

Initial investigation revealed an Ideal Response 120 combination boiler in the utility room, a CDA CD 9000 SS cooker in the kitchen and a Royal Cozyfire Slimline Standard Mk 2 Inset Live Fuel Effect Fire in the lounge.

An initial test for gas tightness showed a drop outside of permissible limits. Investigation internally using a Kane May Flammable Gas Detector showed a leak to the pipework behind the cooker. Closer inspection pinpointed the leak as being at the junction of a brass compression fitting and the black iron pipework within the wall. The fitting was removed and found to be a parallel thread screwed into a taper thread. This fitting was removed and replaced with the correct taper fitting.

Another test for gas tightness still showed a drop. No further gas leaks could be found behind the cooker. A further leak was detected on the inlet to the restrictor elbow on the gas fire. The compression fitting was tightened and the installation subject to another test. This third test proved the installation was now sound.


The working pressure was now tested at the meter and found to be 21.7 mbar. The working pressure was then tested at inlet to the gas fire and was found to be 19.9 mbar. Firing the boiler at maximum had the result of reducing this pressure to 17.2 mbar and lighting the cooker reduced this to 15.8 mbar. The fire was subjected to a spillage test under all conditions and passed. A gas rate check on the fire alone revealed a heat input of 5.45 kW instead of the required 6.1 kW. This proved the fire to be 10.7% undergassed. British Standards allow for a difference of +/- 5% . Because of the nature of the appliance it was classed as At Risk, turned off and labelled.
The working pressure was checked at the cooker inlet and found to be 20.3 mbar. Testing with the boiler on maximum produced a working pressure of 17.7 mbar. Although this was too low the flame picture remained stable on all burners and subsequently the cooker installation was classed as not to current standards and left connected.

The working pressure was checked at the boiler inlet and found to be 17.3 mbar. A gas rate check revealed a heat input of 39.83 kW. The maximum heat input to the boiler should be 44 kW which means that the boiler is 9.5% undergassed at maximum heat input. As the boiler was range rated, the undergassing will cause inconvenience rather than a dangerous situation. The boiler was classed as not to current standards and left connected.

Further checks on the efficient workings of the boiler could not be carried out as no servicing and installation instructions had been left on site (a contravention of The Gas Safety (Installation and use) Regulations 1998, regulation 29). No Benchmark Logbook had been left on site in contravention of the manufacturers instructions. Investigation of the heating system revealed signs of minor leakage to several radiators and Ms Blanks experience of needed to regularly top up the system confirms the presence of leaks within the system. Rust marks leading from some of the radiator air vents and the absence of the Benchmark Logbook tend to indicate that the system has not been flushed in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions.

Ms Blank also complained that several of the terminal fitting were prone to dripping and that the showers ran hot and cold. The terminal fitting do not appear to be designed to cope with the high pressures encountered within this system. The bath/shower mixer fitted to the bath is not ideally suited to installation with a combination boiler as it is not thermostatic. The shower mixer fitted within the shower cubicle does not appear to have a manufacturer’s mark on it and although it appears to be thermostatic it is either malfunctioning or not suitable for this type of installation.



RECOMMENDATIONS

As a matter of urgency the poor working pressure at the appliance inlets should be rectified. Current standards allow for a drop of 1 mbar across the installation pipework and this installation suffers from a drop of 5.9 mbar between the meter and the fire. The pipework sizes appear to be adequate which tends to indicate an obstruction within the pipework. As there is a large pressure drop to the boiler there is probably an obstruction between there and the meter.

To ensure the longevity of the system, the leaks should be located and rectified. It should then be thoroughly flushed through using a chemical cleanser and refilled using an approved inhibitor. On completion of these tasks a replacement logbook should be obtained from the manufacturer and filled in.
[h=1][/h]
Further information needs to be obtained on the terminal fittings to ascertain there suitability for the plumbing system. There may be a claim on the manufacturer’s warranty for defective fittings.

The installer attended this property along with the CORGI inspector and when asked to carry out a soundness test (this was before they changed it's name) he attached a U gauge to the meter, turned the gas on and sat looking at it for two minutes. No wonder he had failed to detect a drop on 3 occasions. When I had tested it I had detected a 20 mbar drop in less than a minute. The leak behind the cooker was very small. The compression fitting behind the fire was hand tight and the only reason there was no smell was because the leaking gas was escaping up the chimney. It was lucky no one had lit the fire, it could have taken the end out of the house.

The HSE did nothing about this again but because the installer was registered this time CORGI temporarily took him off the register until he had attended re-training and passed the ACS examinations again.

The house builder got another installer in to run a new gas carcass external to the property. The original carcass was black iron in the floor and I suspect that either was not capped whilst screeding work was carried out as it appeared to be of an adequate size or the joints had been badly made and jointing compound/ptfe tape was partially obstructing the pipework.

 

[hammers4spanner]

Thats your problem right there the time it takes to RIDDOR report for the high possibility of nothing going to happen

 

[Dotty]

Problem is the hse. Because it's part of the public sector it moves with public sector urgency and efficiency.

I still say cattleprods should be allowed for education purposes......

 

[Dotty]

Problem is the hse. Because it's part of the public sector it moves with public sector urgency and efficiency.

I still say cattleprods should be allowed for education purposes......

"Allow me to explain why you mustn't remove the boiler cover........."

**BRRZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzztttttttt..............**

"Need me to explain again?"