Flue for old atmospheric boiler

[Riley]

I had the boiler fitted 40+ years ago and it has only ever needed 2 thermocouples hence my reluctance to change it.
I remember a guy sticking a screwdriver in the side of the flue to make a hole for his analyser. His argument being that the draw from the chimney wouldn't let any gas escape.
So if I fill the hole in is it OK?
I was thinking of getting a 1 metre length section of twin wall to fit to the top of the boiler, then connect a 45 degree bend and then a connector to connect to the flexi flue liner ie so most of the flue in the garage is twin wall. Hopefully this will keep any further meter installers happy?
On another subject the 88 year old lady next door had a new boiler fitted by the gas board 5 years ago and also pays for an annual service/callout plan. Last year when it was serviced they frightened her by saying that it was getting a bit old, parts maybe hard to find and she could be left without heating. They said the same about the gas fire in the front room. They made her pay best part of £10,000 for another new boiler and a fire. Then in winter during a cold spell the boiler broke so she rang the gas board and they said they were too busy to take any more calls. I had a look and the condensate pipe was frozen.
This is the reason I try and keep my old reliable boiler going for as long as possible.

Ps nobody “made” her pay for it. £10000 is a lot but come on she could’ve shopped around for quotes. Once again you make it sound like all installers are out to fleece you. No responsible engineer is going to tell you to change and upgrade for fun. The reluctance to upgrade to save a few quid could prove horrendously expensive with someone’s life. Don’t be a statistic please.

 

[Steve jones]

Please please stop right there. What you are proposing is illegal and dangerous. Do you not understand what an integral part a correctly installed flue is. It’s not in any way shape or form a DIY venture. The boiler shouldn’t even be on at the moment. Please seek the guidance of a properly trained gas engineer who can sort that mess.

Ok, I'll make some enquiries next week and I'm sorry if the story about my neighbour caused any offence to you guys. I appreciate all your comments

 

[Riley]

It’s not really caused offence but it’s always a few baduns that tar the lot of us.

 

[DXCross]

Wrong. NCS DOES exist, you just do not note it on a Warning Label. You can (and I do/would) nite them on my Invoice/Report sheet.

Are you under the impression that all ex NCS situations are AR?

During my recent re-assessments it was told to me that ncs wasn’t a ‘thing’ anymore however during a recent convo with another gsr engineer it appears it is. Just isn’t viable on a form as such so I’m wrong in this instance; apologises!

 

[Aire]

During my recent re-assessments it was told to me that ncs wasn’t a ‘thing’ anymore however during a recent convo with another gsr engineer it appears it is. Just isn’t viable on a form as such so I’m wrong in this instance; apologises!

From my assessment I was told ncs was done away with too, without double checking I'm sure we now have 2 categories of AR, one category was dealt with by just filling out a form to notify the customer which basically replaced ncs and the other where we would have to turn the appliance off, fill out a form and attach a label.

 

[Pickwickpick]

From my assessment I was told ncs was done away with too, without double checking I'm sure we now have 2 categories of AR, one category was dealt with by just filling out a form to notify the customer which basically replaced ncs and the other where we would have to turn the appliance off, fill out a form and attach a label.

We've been taught that they have got rid of NCS and things that would have fallen under that category are to be called none compliant. We should inform the customer of it but there are no stickers to leave/forms to fill out.

 

[Aire]

We've been taught that they have got rid of NCS and things that would have fallen under that category are to be called none compliant. We should inform the customer of it but there are no stickers to leave/forms to fill out.

Yeah your right, just checked and, you can still notify in writing if you wish but not as part of a warning notice, so verbally is fine.

 

[DXCross]

Hopefully not high jacking the thread too much but seems a bit backwards in my opinion. Gas safe really didn’t relay the information too well?
Either way it’s a learning curve and happy to be corrected. Thanks

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Ncs still exists just note it down but do nothing about it no labels nothing

 

[Aire]

Hopefully not high jacking the thread too much but seems a bit backwards in my opinion. Gas safe really didn’t relay the information too well?
Either way it’s a learning curve and happy to be corrected. Thanks

Don't think it's an issue with gas safe relaying the info, it's probably people (like me) forgetting.

I haven't had to use the warning system since qualifying so I guess it's easily done.

 

[Pickwickpick]

Don't think it's an issue with gas safe relaying the info, it's probably people (like me) forgetting.

I haven't had to use the warning system since qualifying so I guess it's easily done.

What is the process for Gas Safe relaying such information? Our tutors told us they put out technical bulletins on their website, do they also post or email them out, or do they have an equivalent of a trade magazine?

 

[Riley]

They have a mag but it’s all targeted wrong. The magazine is more about what not to do rather than improving standards

 

[Pickwickpick]

Thought that might be the case, its bonkers as that would be a really easy win for them, especially at a time when they're under the spotlight (iirc only last November Gas Safe were on Watchdog).

 

[Riley]

It’s wrong it’s another contract to the highest bidder who then have no obligation to actually clean up the industry. That’s the problem with all these government tendered contracts there’s never any incentive be it financial or punitive to complete on time or actually achieve things

 

[Pickwickpick]

It’s wrong it’s another contract to the highest bidder who then have no obligation to actually clean up the industry. That’s the problem with all these government tendered contracts there’s never any incentive be it financial or punitive to complete on time or actually achieve things

Yep that's true, but even when they have done contracts with so incentives/disincentives (e.g. probation services) its still not driven up standards to an acceptable level. Part of the problem is there's literally only a handful of companies that are large enough to take on these big contracts, so you end up with a quasi monopoly on the go. Capita didn't get the nickname Crapita for no reason, yet they keep being awarded government contracts... I also personally think that when it comes to regulatory bodies there should be no profit motive involved.

 

[Riley]

I think electric standards had the right idea where there are various bodies then they have to win your custom

 

[Pickwickpick]

That would definitely help, at least it would make it harder for them to treat tradesmen, who have no choice but to register, as cashcows. Not convinced it would help from an enforcement & raising standards perspective however.

 

[Riley]

Small steps I think mate it’ll start with everyone going with the cheapest option then as the punters start to see what’s on offer it will come down to the company that offer the best service

 

[Pickwickpick]

My concern with that set up is that if there are multiple bodies, each will have slightly different takes on enforcement, rules&regs, CPD... it will muddy the water further imo.

I think considering the public safety aspect, the government should be setting aside a budget that is adequate to ensure that a) there is significantly more enforcement/inspection b) there is good quality support for gas engineers, including training/education & decent communication (it wouldn't be that hard or expensive for them to email/post tech bulletins when they come out to everyone on the register) rather than just a reassessment every 5yrs. It would take some political will however, which as always is sadly going to take a major catastrophe to kick them into doing something.

 

[Riley]

Problem is mate that at the moment there is zero enforcement. Multiple organisations all following the same remit could at least prove they have teeth or not

 

[Pickwickpick]

Yep, totally agree about current state of affairs, just think the fastest, fairest & most effective way to changing it would be a decent budget provided by the government that is a) solely for enforcement b) has to be used c) effectiveness assessed (would be good to have input from gas safe members on this) with loss of contract if not adequate.

But it would take a lot of political will, with that missing, then yes your option is probably the next best.

Any idea how sparks feel about their multi body set up?

 

[Aire]

Interesting, I would class a boiler with the wrong flue used as immediately dangerous.

What's with the dislike @chris watkins

 

[chris watkins]

Sorry bit harsh but if it is working correctly Craig, as we have to assume it has been for all this time it can't be ID.
It would have to be spilling for that.

And for those who think it should be condemned because of how hot the liner is likely to get clearly have not touched a nice bit of single wall stainless or enamelled especially on a solid fuel appliance !!

 

[firemant]

What's with the dislike @chris watkins

Probably because you clearly have not read the procedure.
Personally, if you were to overstep your remit, and wrongly condemn my boiler, depriving my family of heat and hot water, I would be looking at suing you.

EDIT: Composed and posted this as Chris was doing so. Too many guys have no real understanding of the basics.

 

[Jerry]

Different point of view:

What's the efficiency on the boiler? 50%

I guess your gas bill is about £800/year? That's £400 up the chimney a year.

A new system boiler in the same spot with a powerflush, controls etc and a 12 year guarantee would cost ???

Do the math. How long until it pays for itself?