Flue gas analysis to high

[GreenArmy]

stwalsh, please stick around the forums. There is plenty to learn and every now and again there will be a problem posted that you will have experiance of and can reply to help someone out. Some do get wound up when certain questions relating to serious gas work are asked, which if you stick around you will find out. I'll give you an example........if someone came on stating that they had just carried out a service and on the tightness test there was a 3mbar drop and a strong smell of gas but with it being an old installation they thought thats alright and left it........i'm sure you would be on to pour scorn onto the poster. Hey, i bet youve been doing a bit of research on the analyser readings since you started this thread ;-)

 

[Surveyor5]

Re: Flue gas analysis. If on initial test the analysis ratio is 0.004 or above, it is at this stage that a strip and clean service is required. On retest after strip and clean reading should not exceed 0.008 co/co2 ratio. If it does the operative should proceed using the Industry Unsafe situations procedure.

 

[arran197]

Re: Flue gas analysis. If on initial test the analysis ratio is 0.004 or above, it is at this stage that a strip and clean service is required. On retest after strip and clean reading should not exceed 0.008 co/co2 ratio. If it does the operative should proceed using the Industry Unsafe situations procedure.

Agree.

 

[armourer]

So if I get to a boiler of a ratio 0.005 I should strip and clean it (including replacing graphite seals etc) and after cleaning I get a reading of 0.007 all is well?

(Not questioning the regulation just the logic).

I am probably not right but I would not strip and clean anything below 0.008 and yes I am CPA1 qualified.
Am I right in thinking 0.000 is perfect combustion?

 

[AWheating]

Am I right in thinking 0.000 is perfect combustion?

or you forgot to turn the boiler on?

 

[arran197]

If after s strip down it is 0.007 then yes, that is acceptable in the regs. I don't think this would indicate that the boiler was perfect though. Anything below 0.004 is acceptable to leave. As long as the rest is ok.

Not sure what perfect combustion show tbh, but the chnaced of getting it are slim!

 

[Leadbetter]

What do you do if u came across this situation on a landlords gas saftey inspection and refused to have it serviced

 

[mfgs]

Then you have to AR it as far as I'm concerned

 

[billybob150811]

Phew stwalsh i,m much more proud than you and they,ve duffed me up --get over it just to throw some petrol on this one how many people know the first thing about fga,s If you go to court can you defend yourself and your readings the first thing i do is purge out in the fresh air and get a time and date stamp and the ambiant temp then go inside and do your readings with a cleaned fga if i knew it all you,d be the first to know but as it is if youve got any tips on fga,s i,m all ears

 

[GrahamM]

Just to clarify this as per my knowledge.
Unless the MI's state otherwise anything upto 0.004 is a pass.
Any reading over this then the appliance must be strip cleaned otherwise it is 'AR'. To allow for settling of the burner/heat exchanger you are permitted a higher tolerance of 0.008 immediately after cleaning.


Was there not something mentioned here somewhere about a zero governed boiler being classed as 'ID' if it over the 0.008?

 

[CMairiD]

Yeah, TB 126 recommends ID on condensers with air/gas ratio valves that exceed 0.008.

You're dead right with MIs, as many of Greenstars are looking for 0.002 max.

 

[metaldust9]

any boiler up to 0.004 is ok unless mi,s stat otherwise 0.004 to 0.008 needs service, for a while the co,s will rise then settle anythink over 0.008 id switch off and label thats what i done on cpa1

 

[gasmarc]

when i did my CPA1 all the instructor said was the ratio and nothing else mattered . I have since done it elsewhere and learned much more, some thing that is handy is testing the air inlet on the flue which should be 20.9 ,

 

[kirkgas]

There is training out there but this goes back to experience. If the OP had passed his assessment which to be honest a days training and an exam any one with a bit of common could do, but if he then had to go back to his mentor/tradesman or whatever he could have points like this clarified without our ridicule and scorn . It is the system that is at fault.
You can pass CPA1 and not even own a FGA , where is the sense in that !
Wonder how long he spent trying to clean it ( no offence intended just a laugh)


I would agree with your final point with one change

They should not be working out there UNSUPERVISED

i learned to drive and didnt have a car, and when i passed my test i was given a bedford CF van (like a transit) that didnt have back windows or a near side mirror, where is the sense in that but we all done it

 

[kirkgas]

when i did my CPA1 all the instructor said was the ratio and nothing else mattered . I have since done it elsewhere and learned much more, some thing that is handy is testing the air inlet on the flue which should be 20.9 ,

testing air inlet is a good check as it confirms (at that moment at least the air intake and flue are seperate, read TB008 ed 2) it also gives an indication that you o2 sensor is working/ok, had a guy saying he took a reading at work and the 02 reading was 5%, couldnt get him to understand that if the 02 was that low i didnt think he could breath properly for long, but then again perhaps he was starved of 02 at some point, it would explain a few things about him

 

[gasmarc]

very good Kirkgas LOL i have met similar, the FGA can solve alot of problems ,i do have to admit that i usually only use mine when doing a service and say to the customer if the efficiency is ok I will not break the combustion seal as it may need replacing hence the price maybe double the quoted price or worse I may have to cut them off. EG had a customer that wanted a service on an ariston he combi which i didnt like the look of ,well they had BG out as their gas bills were hugh and their hot water you could make tea with, this had been like this for years , the FGA went off the scale , the problem was the burner pressure was way out, sorted customer delighted

 

[psk]

To the OP, keep the guide that came with your analyser somewhere you can see the readings easily, i have mine stuck inside my toolbox so whenevr i open my box the figures to wrk are bang infront me eyes.
To the other time served plumbers and gas fitters stop your 'bullying' LOL reminds me of high school days where you get the freshers runnining amok from seniors.
lets jus be sensible, if you dont like the question dont answer there is no obligation in posting after reading a post!.
thanks.....
ps please dont start on me now, im struggling with work at the mo!

 

[ecowarm]

The "bullying" was a year ago!

 

[AWheating]

ps please dont start on me now, im struggling with work at the mo!

give me your dinner money!

 

[Dan83]

just read this thread and i have felt the urge to have my say, i joined this forum a little while ago as i sadly find some posts interesting! it does however appear to me most threads have at least one person, having a pop like they are personally insulted someone asked a question! thats what a forum is guys, i could sit here and tell you all ive been a gas fitter for 20 years man and boy but id be telling porkies, point being i guarantee people who arent gas safe come on here for tips to fix things they shouldnt be fixing, if you feel thats whats happening dont reply! if you think its a newbie dont be such a boys club and help them out!! ps i know this dosent apply to all there are some helpful people around ;-) all the best

 

[dontknowitall]

just read this thread and i have felt the urge to have my say, i joined this forum a little while ago as i sadly find some posts interesting! it does however appear to me most threads have at least one person, having a pop like they are personally insulted someone asked a question! thats what a forum is guys, i could sit here and tell you all ive been a gas fitter for 20 years man and boy but id be telling porkies, point being i guarantee people who arent gas safe come on here for tips to fix things they shouldnt be fixing, if you feel thats whats happening dont reply! if you think its a newbie dont be such a boys club and help them out!! ps i know this dosent apply to all there are some helpful people around ;-) all the best

I think many of the non Gas Safe posters are found out and then no advice on gas is given, save contacting a gas safe plumber. Obviously, some slip through the net.

I'm not gas safe either but one thing I'm very happy about is that fact that it's not a closed shop and it's possible to read the gas threads as sometimes they have really useful tips and information.

 

[JayDee]

We all know there are guys out there who passed the exams but cant do the job...an open book exam is easy to pass (especially if you are being prompted) and I personally find it worrying when I see some of the "competent" people I come across

I used to teach and assess in a Tech College, I was that brassed off with the culture of 'passing them all' I got out.

I just couldn't stomach seeing "incompetents" being passed when they should have been flirted through the door.

Education in this country is a sham. It's all about "product" - The product being a certificate. When in reality, it should be about "process" - The process of learning something so that you really can demonstrate technical ability/skills/knowledge.

Learning something thoroughly and being able to work with skill, both hand skills and tech skills, is a real achievement that will carry you for the rest of your career. A certificate is a peice of paper.

Many people now think you have to just get a 'certificate', and you are competent.

I'm whinging ! Sorry! One last word.........Experience ;-)

 

[gasmarc]

I make you spot on JayDee , The training is just a formality and by the sound of it loads of people have passed but havnt got a clue what they are doing , I have done it twice because of this reason,

 

[AWheating]

my old company owned its own college, a blind man would pass if he worked for them. Infact i never failed

 

[dontknowitall]

Great post, JayDee!

My wish is that the training for a certificate would include a large dose of diagnostics (ie this is the problem and this is what you do to solve it). I appreciate that training cannot cover every eventuality but, as we see on this forum, there are plenty of common problems with reasonable simple fixes.

For example, in my OFTEC, we learned how to design a burner but when it came to a boiler not working, this was covered only by questions (and extremely quick and vague answers). The G3 unvented stuff skipped over diagnostics in about 2 minutes. The coursework seems only to cover the stuff you need to pass the exam, not how to do the job properly. The fast track course told you about stop taps, but no advice on how to deal with one you can't turn off.

Experience is great though, and when you're new it's a steep learning curve. Not that fair on your customers though!