gas hob cp12 check or not ?????

[stevetheplumber]

the upshot of all this is fit as many gas cocks as possible which will make life easier for us all in future

 

[kirkgas]

not me just the lazy ones who want to do bare minimum

just to clarify my stand on this, I quoted the law, not necerssarily what I do, but there are companies out there who comply with the law, albeit a mimimum it is their choice/contract agreement with client and not our decision, if they go above the law and find problems the client might not pay to have the work rectified so that leaves the super duper gas engineer with a problem of having isolated a gas supply that he shouldn'r have touched, as an example and sure to cause more outrage!! you do a TT on existing install, U6 meter, no smell or report of gas leak, you find 2mb drop, of those who have commented on poor standards of others, do you disconnect all appliances and prove the drop is on the carcass then have to repair or isolate, costing the customer money and inconvenience or do you comply with the law and leave the appliances on, my interpretation of allowable drop rate on existing install with existing appliances is that i can report as i find, i ALWAYS leave the appliances connected, report the 2mb drop on my paperwork, then advise the landlord/owner that further investigation could be costly and let them make the decision, also on some CP1/12 type forms it only asks for tightness test PASS/FAIL, not that any drop is recorded, I ALWAYS record any drop found so that the landlord/owner gets to decide what further action if any is carried out, a lot of people would find the 2mb drop and simply put PASS

I was always under the impression that walking inot any customers property and working on any gas appiance you assume responsibility for gas tightness. therefore, always carry out a test before you start and if there is a drop you find it before starting work? is this wrong?

yes you are wrong, read IGEUP1/B or tightness test procedure in your training book, there are set criteria where a TT must be done, but not every time you work on gas, but as is beoing discussed here it can be seen as best practice

To do a tightness test we must turn off the gas at some point. Therefore we must re-establish supplies to the other appliances, when we do that we have to at least give them a visual check for any signs of spillage or such like.
I think the regs state we must test to the closest valve up and downstreem. that is usually the ECV, so if we run to the letter of the law as i interpret it, yes we have to follow the re-establishing supplies on all appliances for the simplest of jobs. Isnt that why we are so highly trained(lol) and charge a decent rate(double lol)

the regs state we should test back to the nearest valve, when working on a gas fire as an example is is acceptable to disconnect the fire at the pedestal, remove the fire, refit and spray broken joints back to the pedestal with LDF, this fully complies with all relevant gas regs

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

just to clarify my stand on this, I quoted the law, not necerssarily what I do, but there are companies out there who comply with the law, albeit a mimimum it is their choice/contract agreement with client and not our decision, if they go above the law and find problems the client might not pay to have the work rectified so that leaves the super duper gas engineer with a problem of having isolated a gas supply that he shouldn'r have touched, as an example and sure to cause more outrage!! you do a TT on existing install, U6 meter, no smell or report of gas leak, you find 2mb drop, of those who have commented on poor standards of others, do you disconnect all appliances and prove the drop is on the carcass then have to repair or isolate, costing the customer money and inconvenience or do you comply with the law and leave the appliances on, my interpretation of allowable drop rate on existing install with existing appliances is that i can report as i find, i ALWAYS leave the appliances connected, report the 2mb drop on my paperwork, then advise the landlord/owner that further investigation could be costly and let them make the decision, also on some CP1/12 type forms it only asks for tightness test PASS/FAIL, not that any drop is recorded, I ALWAYS record any drop found so that the landlord/owner gets to decide what further action if any is carried out, a lot of people would find the 2mb drop and simply put PASS



yes you are wrong, read IGEUP1/B or tightness test procedure in your training book, there are set criteria where a TT must be done, but not every time you work on gas, but as is beoing discussed here it can be seen as best practice




the regs state we should test back to the nearest valve, when working on a gas fire as an example is is acceptable to disconnect the fire at the pedestal, remove the fire, refit and spray broken joints back to the pedestal with LDF, this fully complies with all relevant gas regs

fine,but i do go further when safety is concerned,tightness is the first thing i do,above the law i know,but i have a conscience,i can sleep at night ,thats what makes a gas engineer

 

[kirkgas]

fine,but i do go further when safety is concerned,tightness is the first thing i do,above the law i know,but i have a conscience,i can sleep at night ,thats what makes a gas engineer

what do you do in the scenario that i gave re finding a leak

i too am a good gas engineer, but i also know the law/regs and have to comply with my clients and contract restrictions

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

what do you do in the scenario that i gave re finding a leak

i too am a good gas engineer, but i also know the law/regs and have to comply with my clients and contract restrictions

and i am not suggesting your not!,but safety is paramount a tt takes seconds or if we want to be pedantic 2 minutes,better to know the state of play than to walk away if you find a leak you make safe,advise the customer and if they give permission you sort it out and bill them accordingly

 

[fuzzy]

It seems we are debating a few small interpretations of the regs, I always test for tightness and build this into my working time. I tell the customer that if i find a drop i will not start work on whatever until it is found and corrected. If this aint the correct interpretation then fine but its the way i do it

 

[gakmonkey]

the upshot of all this is fit as many gas cocks as possible which will make life easier for us all in future

You already do this with water so why not gas I always put gas cocks before an appliance.

 

[InterGAS]

I cant really accept that someone would sign off a service without doing a TT.
What part of if you fiddle with combustion or gas TT before and after is confusing?
A TT Should always be done on any service and CP12.

If the Hob is burning crisp and there are no problem above or around it and the soundness test is fine and yeh I mean 0 drop never mind the allowed drop, you dont really want to be leaving any drop, its more work for you and most of northern gas networks confuse themselves with this I spent many time arguing the toss about this and find it funny they think your allowed 4mbr on pipework.
Anyhow for CP12 on hob I would agree with the british gas guy, how far do you go.
Its all about covering your bum, do what you feel you should do but for me, I would not expect to check pipework behind an electric oven, its a question of how far to do you go.
what if you find a 2mb drop do you put it down to the old appliances or start to cap and rule out pipework, it does not need to be done, but something happens and its on pipework and you signed it off as okay?
I would be more worried about that than little ECV or cooker hose on hob.
0 drop only screw the poor customers pocket money, they will be the ones claiming against you if it all goes bang, I find it insane that this regulation still stands.

If your do really want to start removing ovens ect.. make sure you finish your purge after your TT, wash them greasy hands and think about signing off any drop.

 

[chelsea]

when ever i come accross a gas hob with a flexi hose i just tell the customers that this cannot be used anymore and has to be rigid pipe work with a gas cock(gas isolation valve)

as for tightness test i do them before i start work and let by once then do a tightness test at the end of the job,its just good practice to know that there are no leaks before and after the work is completed

when i do a cp12 i always do a TT and let by and always insist that the boiler be serviced too and do all the inspections.

Landlord certs are only as good on the day they were issued,i don't know who is going to go in after me and mess about with such appliances or do any alterations,as long as i stick to the gas regs thats all i'm concerned about that i have done my job properly.

as far as i'm concerned as long as there are no leaks and the appliance is working as it should with all the relevent test such as a gas rate check as per the M.I's then i believe you have nothing to worry about.

 

[stevetheplumber]

since most hobs these days have very few identifing names on them i end up taking the oven out to find the label under the hob so i can fill in the formwould it be correct to just put unknown ?

 

[InterGAS]

since most hobs these days have very few identifing names on them i end up taking the oven out to find the label under the hob so i can fill in the formwould it be correct to just put unknown ?

Yes I dont see why not, most of my hobs go down as unknown or -

 

[Theplumbingwork]

I have just passed my acs and have just registered with gas safe I would agree with the last combat two reasons above and I would love any of you that think you don't need to to a tt to call up gas safe and tell them that you do work on gas and are not doing a t t I bet you get a some one coming out to check you are safe a t t is always a must. And as for the Cp 12 question it's up to you how far you check the app install it's your head on the line and if it's not a safe install it's a chance to make some money making it safe

 

[kirkgas]

I have just passed my acs and have just registered with gas safe I would agree with the last combat two reasons above and I would love any of you that think you don't need to to a tt to call up gas safe and tell them that you do work on gas and are not doing a t t I bet you get a some one coming out to check you are safe a t t is always a must. And as for the Cp 12 question it's up to you how far you check the app install it's your head on the line and if it's not a safe install it's a chance to make some money making it safe

as you have just passed your ACS you should know the rules, and i'm telling you IT IS NOT MANDATORY TO DO A TT WHEN YOU DO A SERVICE FOR A PRIVATE CUSTOMER, you should read the posts on this before making such a comment, and i will bet you any amount of money you can raise to any childrens charity you care to mention that if you phone Gas safe back and tell them kirk doesn't do a TT on a service you see if they say "right we are away out to check up on that cowboy" if you want to discuss/debate whether it is good practice or not then search for all the posts we have already made on it and you will find reams of conversations on it, same as where we draw the line on LGSC, (my take on this is that i do a TT on LGSC as i need to confirm the safety of the landlords gas pipe) but there are defined situations where it is mandatory to do a TT and you should be aware of these having just proved competance, if you choose to be "safer or better" than me by doing a TT every time, you better be ready for the flak you get when you turn off someones gas who subsequently find out you doing a TT was your choice, and the subsequent invoice/hassle to them could have been avoided, (and dont think for a minute they will thank you for saving their life, you will be accused of scamming them for more money, which i dont think you would be but that is what you will be accused of) make sure you invoke the No1 gas rule CYA at all times, forget being nice and trtying to help people, these same nice people will rip your head off and mess down your neck when it suits them, and there speaks experience

 

[jonnyboy]

hi mate just through my asc exams and a tightness test is must for peace of mind .

 

[SafeGasInstall]

i take this thread as another BG wind up and I am not going to post

 

[Dannypipe]

Considering the threads over a year old, I think we can all "let it lie"

LOL

 

[tommyg67]

imho tt is an absolute must when doing any check or work for 2 reasons
1/customer cannot claim that ""it was fine before you came now find my leak"" you will have no alternative but to comply
2/how can you leave a property after cp12 or any work and be sure that there is no gas leaks regardless of whether you have caused them surely as an engineer no 1 priority is safety(and getting paid)
whats important is you are happy that you have left that property safe and if that means doing a bit extra then fine after all are we saying we want to do the least amount of checks we can get away with doesnt seem much of an advert for standards does it

without a TT a sleepless night is all you will end up with..

i still have them and i do everything by the book.

 

[stevetheplumber]

why woould you do a tightness test on a condensing service if the mi's dont require you to break into the gas line, gas rate ,flue analyser visual check of flue and terminal jobs a good un even on a back boiler strip down you only need to test joints disturbed with ldf

 

[tamz]

I love Kirks post. #38 :lol:

 

[DaveTidy]

Tommy. The book doesn't require a tightness test as some people have stated but I do understand why you personally want to carry one out; I've yet to see someone state it from a specific procedure as it's not in one.

I have looked at all my manuals and an appliance service has never required an installation TT (and have trained guys for ACS, ACOPS and C&G over the last 32 years).

As regards a CP12, the CORGI manual states "Carry out a visual inspection of exposed areas of pipe work. A gas tightness (soundness) test is also recommended (but it doesn't state mandatory).

As for the hob hose, we had a Gas Safe business manager out once to confirm to the guys 'Face to face' that the check is a visual one without removing appliances; but, it he didn't say don't if you really want to.

Now obviously everyone has their own thoughts about what they would rather do for peace of mind. The guys not doing it are following the book and the ones doing the additional checks are for peace of mind or what they feel is 'Better practice' but where do you stop.

I've seen a post on the forum where is states that people carrying out a full tightness test on a service is purely a money making exercise as it is not required and they are searching for work. I think in most cases this isn't true but as soon as a customer calls Gas Safe to see if it is madatory you'd better hope you didn't tell them it was.

Anyway, i'd never criticise anyone for overdoing a job but it's generally better for some people to check the book before quoting from it.

 

[AWheating]

without a TT a sleepless night is all you will end up with..

i still have them and i do everything by the book.

which book do you use? i find the gas regs send me to sleep

 

[migoplumber]

i suppose technically you could put unknown down on your form. however if you dont see the data plate with the burner and operating pressure on then how can you pass it on the form or declare it safe to use ?
what if the data plate used to say, use on lpg only or something daft (extreme example) you need to see a data plate or positivly identify an appliance to state that it is safe to use.
oven has to come out and you need to see data plate. might as well check if it is connected with rigid or a lump of garden hose.
no data plate - how can you say the appliance is safe to use. no data plate at risk in my book.

 

[AWheating]

i agree with you over the data badge.

with a cooker hose you would have to find and consult manufactures instructions to know if its correct or not.

 

[DaveTidy]

I normally use the 'Domestic Essential Gas Safety' book £19.99; not cheap, reads well and better than guessing and better than getting someone else's opinion as that won't help us in court!

You can find it here:

Domestic Gas Engineers | Gas Books | Gas Manuals | Gas Pocket Guides | Gas Slide Rules | Domestic Gas | Corgi Direct=

 

[kirkgas]

hi mate just through my asc exams and a tightness test is must for peace of mind .

so you are agreeing with me that it isnt mandatory