Gas leak reported 7 weeks after I fitted meter

[Matthew Bolton]

Hi everyone,

I was suspended today pending an investigation and disciplinary hearing after a 4mb gas leak was detected on a joint i had soldered over 7 weeks ago when fitting a gas meter in someones living room.

On my first tightness test before the installation I recorded a drop of between 0.25 and 0.5 mb. After the installation I carried out three tightness tests whilst I waited for the pipe to cool and recorded 0.5, 0.25 and then 0mb on the last test. I also covered every joint and pipe I had touched with LDF and found no bubbles.

A colleague of mine attended the job to fix the leak and advised me he recorded a drop of 4mb and that LDF produced bubbles straight away on the joint but that it was not under stress, nor was it a fluxed unsoldered joint which had crossed my mind.

Can anyone give me advice about what they think might have happened after I left other than foul play by customer, the joint cracking under strain or the pipe being accidentally knocked by someone after I had gone?

Also, does anyone know if a tightness test can hold when it's not tight other than for a pinched tube or unsoldered fluxed joint?

And lastly, does it seem right that a 4mb leak in a living room would go undetected for 7 weeks?

Thanks for taking the time to read this, if anyone can offer any advice/suggestions I'd be very grateful!

 

[nysk2008]

do you have a print out of proof that the tightness test passed? thats the only thing that could cover your rear on this occasion - hope yousort it though

Hi everyone,

I was suspended today pending an investigation and disciplinary hearing after a 4mb gas leak was detected on a joint i had soldered over 7 weeks ago when fitting a gas meter in someones living room.

On my first tightness test before the installation I recorded a drop of between 0.25 and 0.5 mb. After the installation I carried out three tightness tests whilst I waited for the pipe to cool and recorded 0.5, 0.25 and then 0mb on the last test. I also covered every joint and pipe I had touched with LDF and found no bubbles.

A colleague of mine attended the job to fix the leak and advised me he recorded a drop of 4mb and that LDF produced bubbles straight away on the joint but that it was not under stress, nor was it a fluxed unsoldered joint which had crossed my mind.

Can anyone give me advice about what they think might have happened after I left other than foul play by customer, the joint cracking under strain or the pipe being accidentally knocked by someone after I had gone?

Also, does anyone know if a tightness test can hold when it's not tight other than for a pinched tube or unsoldered fluxed joint?

And lastly, does it seem right that a 4mb leak in a living room would go undetected for 7 weeks?

Thanks for taking the time to read this, if anyone can offer any advice/suggestions I'd be very grateful!

 

[village idiot]

I hope you are found to not be at fault. I have attended properties (new builds) wher such a pressure drop was found (after 3 years). The location of the joint where leak was could not have been due to ''vadalism''

I make every effort to ensure that tenants, customers, etc are shown the process of a tightness test if they are present. It just means you can sleep easy

 

[Matthew Bolton]

I don't have any proof because we aren't provided with digital manometers unfortunately. We do have to take pictures of us carrying out a test before and after a job though so the office should have these.

 

[wetdrip]

This is the second type of question for the same thing in a last couple of weeks.
Is there not a fool proof way of proving the test has been done and a recored of proof showing tightnes test passed.
This should not nor ever happen to any fitter worth his salt.
I'd be that paranoid after these posts I'd start video recording every test done.
Just does not seem fair.

 

[AlexGas]

... if anyone can offer any advice/suggestions I'd be very grateful!

Gas advice or suggestions!?
I think we are in the wrong place!

 

[combo]

I remember doing a landlord safety check once, T/T was fine, went to the fire and whilst cleaning the void space, the supply pipe came apart in my hand...it had never been soldered, flux had kept it sealed !! I've come across pedestal elbow fibre seals that have began to leak after a short while. Might have just been a less than perfect soldered joint that may of had a slight knock or something.

 

[Matthew Bolton]

I remember doing a landlord safety check once, T/T was fine, went to the fire and whilst cleaning the void space, the supply pipe came apart in my hand...it had never been soldered, flux had kept it sealed !! I've come across pedestal elbow fibre seals that have began to leak after a short while. Might have just been a less than perfect soldered joint that may of had a slight knock or something.

Thanks for the advice combo, you might be right. Its certainly the most practical suggestion I've had so far.

 

[Neil K]

I remember doing a landlord safety check once, T/T was fine, went to the fire and whilst cleaning the void space, the supply pipe came apart in my hand...it had never been soldered, flux had kept it sealed !! I've come across pedestal elbow fibre seals that have began to leak after a short while. Might have just been a less than perfect soldered joint that may of had a slight knock or something.

I've had that before. The fitting literally coming apart in my hand even though the tightness test held

 

[jase158]

I had this once, slight drop on first test, made me paranoid so ldf all over, leak stopped!! Went and wiped joints of the ldf and decided to do another test!! Dropping like mad. I'm sure ldf and flux can hide a leak so I always triple check everything and make sure it is cleaned spotless!! Oh and my best friend is an inspection mirror.

 

[jase158]

And remember 21mb is barely no pressure, even with water that wouldn't blow an u soldered joint

 

[Pssst]

There is no need to prove anything. You did the job, you did the test, it passed. That is all there is to say. Cant see what the fuss is about.

 

[Matthew Bolton]

Thanks psst. I read your post just before i went into the interview with my manager and it was a nice bit of motivation just at the right time

 

[Matthew Bolton]

Just had an interview with my manager. I gave him my statement and he told me what the customer had said in her statement. Apparently she smelt gas everyday after I left and this continued for 7 weeks and one day before getting worse at which point she then rang nat grid.

I find it hard to believe that anyone would leave a smell of gas from a 4mb leak in a living room for over 7 weeks, especially after it started once someone had been carrying out gas work at your house. I also don't see how a leak like this could get worse because it was on a soldered joint in a position that wouldn't be under strain ever i.e under floor board.

Got a disciplinary hearing next week so hopefully this will be considered but the nature of this job seems to mean that someone has to take the blame and the finger always points at whoever was there last.

 

[Pssst]

Can you explain the circs under which you were required to make a soldered joint when undertaking meter work? Where was the meter fitted and where was the joint located?

How big is the building,what type,and where is the meter located? What size is the space in which the meter is located?

Sit tight,say nowt to colleagues,managers, no one...loose lips sink ships..

Have you received a written statement re the hearing and also does it clearly state the alleged offence?

 

[Matthew Bolton]

Can you explain the circs under which you were required to make a soldered joint when undertaking meter work? Where was the meter fitted and where was the joint located?

How big is the building,what type,and where is the meter located? What size is the space in which the meter is located?

Sit tight,say nowt to colleagues,managers, no one...loose lips sink ships..

Have you received a written statement re the hearing and also does it clearly state the alleged offence?

I had to replace a flexi pipe on the outlet with copper pipe which is why I had to solder a joint.

The meter was fitted in a 2nd living room in the middle of the house in a small cupboard built only to house the meter, not possible to have gas evaporate from there to anywhere else. This room connects the kitchen and living room at the front of the house. The joint was at the meter just after the outlet.

The building was about a 3 bed terraced house.

No warning received, still waiting disceplianry hearing.

 

[Pssst]

Just hold your position i.e you did the work and applied the tightness test which indicated no leak.

There is no way of proving when or how the leak started.

How long is your work warranted for? If the leak had started a year later would you be disciplined? What about 2 or 3 years?? what about a week later?

These are all arbitrary figures. What figure do THEY have in mind and how do they justify it?

We only have the customers world as to how long they had been smelling it. They could have been smelling anything. Why suddenly sp?ring into action after six months if for eg they had been smelling it a week later/a fortnight/ a month/two months..

What spurred them into action after such a time?

Remember it is for them to prove something and not for you to prove you didnt. What are they trying to allege and prove anyway? That you didnt apply a test?

 

[hammers4spanner]

I had this few months ago couple mbar drop over something i had done about nine months prior was proper fretting over it at first then found out that when i re read the email sent to me concerning this that the engineer who found the leak had not followed procedure.

Also they had gas work undertaken after i had visited, remember you do a TT to say when you leave install it was safe , after anything could happen if we all got shut down or sacked after any issue then BG would either have been shut down yonks ago or all their staff would be sacked!! Every other house i goto where they have been seems to be humping of gas.

 

[goz666]

Only advice I can give you mate is to read your company's disciplinary and grievance procedure cover to cover. I did a course many years ago and the tutor was a former shop steward at Ford Halewood, he told us 9 out of 10 disciplinaries and tribunal decisions are awarded to the employee due to management not following their own procedures.
This came in handy years later when I too was accused of gross misconduct, and although I couldn't prove I was innocent, and they couldn't prove otherwise, their shocking management skills saved my job.
Most companies have a timescale, make 100% sure they stick to it but don't prompt them.

 

[downthesouth]

Thats all you want before Christmas. How did the custard decide to leave it 7 weeks before reporting it. I think that would be an argument your employer would need to answer. You did all the procedure at the time and found no leak, a leak appeared later on, for all you know it may have got a knock during soldering or just after or later on and didn't show at the time. Some days im glad im a sole trader.

 

[oz-plumber]

About 10 years ago, I was dragged in front of our Plumbing Commission, regarding pretty much the same thing - Gas Leak.
Long story short.. the gas inspector called me after hours on his home phone no. - he knew I was being taken for a ride by the customer.

Regarding the hearing, he told me to answer the questions in as few a words as possible.
Do not elaborate.

The reasoning was that the Plumbing Commission rarely have enough to go on.
What they want you to do, is get you to admit that you were at fault.
They will try to manipulate you into admitting you didn't follow the correct procedure.

The trick is keep you mouth shut and answer the questions asked in as fewer words as possible.

I didn't have anything to hide - but I was glad on the heads up about how the hearing works.
It put my mind as ease over the situation

 

[Crinkmeister]

Things like this make me mad! Why didn't the customer tell you on day one that she thought there was a leak? If I had smelt a gas leak after someone did a job for me, I would get them straight back to fix it. I wouldn't wait 7 weeks and then phone Transco. Seems a bit stinky to me and I don't mean gas! Good luck to you - hope it all goes well. Some people can be right @r$3holes!!

 

[Sim77]

How valid a print out from digital manometer would be in this case? Are those accepted as 100% proof that installation is sound (provided device is calibrated)?

 

[lame plumber]

not at all valid unless you hand it to your supervisor on the day, as I can produce a printout for any day at any time on any day at any time

 

[Pongo]

not at all valid unless you hand it to your supervisor on the day, as I can produce a printout for any day at any time on any day at any time

I'm sure the Anton evo2/3 give a print out date time as well as keeping the original sampling/test date and time allowing for print outs for customer and your records!