Gas/Plumbing Courses

[kirkgas]

I think there will be so many plumbers/gas installers de-registering over the next couple of years, it won't matter what qualifications you have, Gas Safe will take you.

Gas Safe are owned by Capita, and they are under pressure from government to squeeze the self employed (FGA course), in order to create growth.

Growth is all that matters and nobody willing to stump up the dosh, is going to be refused entry.

1 weeks training, 2 days training - it doesn't matter - the key is in the belief that we can learn things without experience. Have we gone mad, or do we just want to share in the education and training delusion, spun by a bunch of management strategists and paper shufflers.

We may start to realise the truth of the situation, that working as a plumber will be a minimum wage job over the next decade - the government will make sure of that, because its their job to keep wage inflation low (which in turn keeps national inflation low).

The government are training up the self employed and promoting enterprise culture to give jobs to 'professionals', those on the periphery bleeding us dry.

If the self-employed goes bust, there are many waiting in the wings to go spend their retirement funds, re-mortgage the house, borrow from banks, to get into this minimum wage industry.

Get a job in Costa Coffee or JB sports, have holiday pay, have sick-pay, have others take the load, and have a happy life.

i dont disagree with what you have said, bit the truth is has much changed over the years? i was a time served plumber working for a large social housing direct works department who had a seperate "renovation dept" who went round the country doing major refurbs, in their wisdom the management decided to pay them all off and use subbies, so they needed a warranty guy from inhouse to look after the boilers, so each of the 7 scottish depots was asked to put a plumber through their gas, so a volunteer was needed, i volunteered to go from the glasgow depot and was sent to college for a week to do my ACOP's, it was a total joke, almost like a training session where we all gathered round to do the assessment and if one brave soul offered an answer that was correct we all wrote it down and on the friday we all went away as gas engineers, i swear i had never done any gas work before that week, and when my tickets came through a few weeks later i was a gas guy, how scarey is that? we were simply left to get on with it, with no management support or anything, because we had to register the maintenancve side with CORGI we got an inspection and the inspector was fantastic with us, gave us great help and assistance without putting us under any pressure (cheers Terry Ralph) and got us up and running, so i dont see that as being an ideal scenario, and that was about 18yrs ago or so, so you cant blame everything on Capita, as it has surely got better since ACOP's days?

 

[Puddle]

Think there is a big difference from an experienced plumber doing a short course and someone who is coming in from an unrelated back ground say it retail,truck driving or phone marketing

The problem is being compounded now by the fact their is not really enough work to keep everyone busy,especially the new fast track,inexperienced operative

In the past if you were new to the gas side (or any new skill within the plumbing field)you could take on what you thought you were capable of and build up your confidence and experience at a steady responsible manor

Now,many have to take on what they are offered or they find available ,as can not afford to turn revenue down,this pressurises them to take on things they are not comfortable at what ever stage of their skills development they are

I know all the government cares only about is statistics as regards skills level of population (on paper) and seeing training as we can in our industry ,it makes you wonder what actual skill levels are in other professions,if Joe Public actually know the truth,do not think they would be to pleased

imho

 

[kirkgas]

Think there is a big difference from an experienced plumber doing a short course and someone who is coming in from an unrelated back ground say it retail,truck driving or phone marketing

The problem is being compounded now by the fact their is not really enough work to keep everyone busy,especially the new fast track,inexperienced operative

In the past if you were new to the gas side (or any new skill within the plumbing field)you could take on what you thought you were capable of and build up your confidence and experience at a steady responsible manor

Now,many have to take on what they are offered or they find available ,as can not afford to turn revenue down,this pressurises them to take on things they are not comfortable at what ever stage of their skills development they are

I know all the government cares only about is statistics as regards skills level of population (on paper) and seeing training as we can in our industry ,it makes you wonder what actual skill levels are in other professions,if Joe Public actually know the truth,do not think they would be to pleased

imho

i agree that for some aspects of the job then being a plumber would make it easier, but TBH the gas jobs i was given the day i got my cert were "no heating" "boiler very noisy" "boiler keeps cutting out" and i had NEVER done any boilers or gas work, ok i can solder and fit pipes and had done 1000's of wet side heating, but i honestly dont think it helped me do any gas, i had a good working ethos because i was taught well, but so have many gas foundation people who were taught engineering, or fault finding or anything logical from their own specialised field

 

[Deleted member 25704]

oh sorry I'm doing a 30 day gas foundation courses with OLCI, which includes 5 days basic plumbing, 5 gas foundation, 10 days gas installation, 5 days advance controls 5 days foundation assessment.

Mabs, your post here sums up our industry.

If one can become a plumber or fitter after that amount of training (without real-world experience) then we are all in trouble, especially the public.

Licence to practice (Gas Safe) is supposed to provide better goods and services to the public.

It beggers belief. That is why licence to practice, is devoid of evidence of where it has actually improved service and goods to the public.

 

[fuzzy]

Mabs, your post here sums up our industry.

If one can become a plumber or fitter after that amount of training (without real-world experience) then we are all in trouble, especially the public.

Licence to practice (Gas Safe) is supposed to provide better goods and services to the public.

It beggers belief. That is why licence to practice, is devoid of evidence of where it has actually improved service and goods to the public.

im sorry clanger but its not the case, the gas foundation is only a foundation. Unless you have a gas NVQ or city and guilds you must provide auditable evidence of working on gas out in industry before you can sit any ACS assessments. So the post explaining what they are doing on the course is not the full story

 

[Deleted member 25704]

im sorry clanger but its not the case, the gas foundation is only a foundation. Unless you have a gas NVQ or city and guilds you must provide auditable evidence of working on gas out in industry before you can sit any ACS assessments. So the post explaining what they are doing on the course is not the full story

Fuzzy, I can understand this, about providing evidence, but so far this has not been challenged. Its a farce.

It doesn't matter if it is foundation course or NVQ, or tech cert...the principles of the competency system are flawed. In addition, the premise of foundation courses are concerned with decontextualised 'cognitive knowledge', which is a bit different from context-based know-how. When we add to this the issue of 'time' we find that teaching people for events that might happen in the future is a bit of problem, when it comes to remembering - if we add to this 'relevance', how many qualification curricula are relevant to what students are doing at work - probably few instances - so even if they can remember, its probably not relevant.

The faith we put in teaching, and transmission approaches to 'cognitive knowledge' is misguided - what can you remember from school that is of any benefit in real life? And does this knowledge present value for being caged for 12 years at said school?

 

[fuzzy]

clanger there are many different aspects to your post and very interesting view points
i partially agree with most but not entirely

1. our industry, yes i know the ill feeling towards these short foundation type courses but people will argue that they are there to support people with experience who need the actual quals and/or to provide additional training and skills for people wanting to get into industry (depending on which actual qual we are discussing)
2. school, yourr right i probably dont remember a single thing that has helped me, but that doesnt mean it didnt, for one, i can read and right, without that much of what i have done wouldnt have been possible
3. cognitive knowledge v practical know how - my view is they run hand in hand, one without the other doesnt work very well

im pro education for what it has done for me, that doesnt mean i dont believe in actually doing things. different jobs require different learning needs. for practical jobs an apprenticeship over 4 years is the best way to go. adult trainees dont want to train for that long. colleges dont want only apprentices as their view is we are part of education, people having to have a job to access education goes against their ethos

whats the answer?

 

[plumbobsqarepip]

im sorry clanger but its not the case, the gas foundation is only a foundation. Unless you have a gas NVQ or city and guilds you must provide auditable evidence of working on gas out in industry before you can sit any ACS assessments. So the post explaining what they are doing on the course is not the full story

Did my acs about a year and a half ago, And although i trained the 'correct way' (nvq on site) All the evidence my fellow class mates need was a sentence of what they did and a signiture...

 

[fuzzy]

Did my acs about a year and a half ago, And although i trained the 'correct way' (nvq on site) All the evidence my fellow class mates need was a sentence of what they did and a signiture...

to do thier ACS?

 

[plumbobsqarepip]

it was an nvq 3 + acs course

 

[Deleted member 25704]

clanger there are many different aspects to your post and very interesting view points
i partially agree with most but not entirely

1. our industry, yes i know the ill feeling towards these short foundation type courses but people will argue that they are there to support people with experience who need the actual quals and/or to provide additional training and skills for people wanting to get into industry (depending on which actual qual we are discussing)
3. cognitive knowledge v practical know how - my view is they run hand in hand, one without the other doesnt work very well

Fuzzy,

Your explanation of foundation courses is reasoned and I accept your opinion.

The bit about theory and practice going hand in hand - its an age old problem and difficult to discuss here.

However, it is conceived by some, that there can be no practical action, without intelligence. Every action is intelligent, where intelligence directed toward some object. We cannot drive a nail without thinking.

But when we talk about technical knowledge, we are talking about a language with which to describe our knowledge, not the thought processes that drive the actions (know-how or tacit knowledge). So to say that theory is applied to practice or that theory and practice go hand in hand, you are repeating what others have told you, without questioning this relationship further.

Theory is rarely applied to practice - we just do our jobs.

 

[fuzzy]

well put clanger, yes i am repeating what ive heard but its also my experience. when i say theory i mean college which was in itself a combination. for example i remember coming across iron threaded pipe a couple of years after i couldnt remeber what to do so i recalled what they told me at college and applied it. i was slow but did it, speed came after and before i knew it i did it without knowing, like driving

i believe that is because i was taught the underpinning knowledge of theory and practise

 

[fuzzy]

it was an nvq 3 + acs course

which one only needed a writen sentence?

 

[plumbobsqarepip]

which one only needed a writen sentence?

Both as far as im aware as most of the other guys on the course were self employed and not interested in working with anyone els... yet I sat the acs/ccn1 with them

 

[fuzzy]

then i would report the centre as they have grossly breached the rules, do you want to pm me their details

 

[northstar]

Both as far as im aware as most of the other guys on the course were self employed and not interested in working with anyone els... yet I sat the acs/ccn1 with them

what area are you from ?

 

[Deleted member 25704]

well put clanger, yes i am repeating what ive heard but its also my experience. when i say theory i mean college which was in itself a combination. for example i remember coming across iron threaded pipe a couple of years after i couldnt remeber what to do so i recalled what they told me at college and applied it. i was slow but did it, speed came after and before i knew it i did it without knowing, like driving

i believe that is because i was taught the underpinning knowledge of theory and practise

Your not wrong here fuzzy, you must have a good take on this in order to follow the post.

There are no definitive answers to this, which is why is worth a discussion now and again.

Sorry to original poster for going off topic

 

[mabs89]

whats my best approach then? what shall i do now i've paid almost £5000 and thats a lot of money to me and i cant just let it go to waste. can i get some serious down to earth advise instead of just putting me down guys. what options do i have now?

 

[tamz]

Nobody is putting you down. It is the training places that are doing people the injustice under false pretences.
You have paid a lot of money so will have to continue and hope you can get the required experience to build a portfolio.

 

[sparra1100]

whats my best approach then? what shall i do now i've paid almost £5000 and thats a lot of money to me and i cant just let it go to waste. can i get some serious down to earth advise instead of just putting me down guys. what options do i have now?

as tamz says nobody is putting you down you have paid £5000 to come into a very cut throat industry with no experience of gas no plumbing and have a least 3 yrs are solid learning to get up to spec and asking questions which are obvious you have to have you acs to be gas safe and then pay again as its going to be highly unlikely you,ll get a job doing gas work with no experience you mite get on fitting meters or landlord checks were all just saying how it is,your training center should have told you all this,were abouts do you live you need to get some plumbing and heating experience before you even consider gas mate ave been doing it yrs and am still learning

 

[fuzzy]

nobody putting you down mate, good luck o you,j just putting you straight

 

[mabs89]

I live in swindon, wiltshire. I've had a little experience in plumber for a fews months were i've worked with a gas engineer helping him with small jobs like hanging radiators fitting valves & taps, bit of soldering and pipe bending etc i know its not a lot but thats what got me interested in this type of industry cause i enjoyed working with him. does anyone know any place that work take me on for some extra training and experience near to where i live?

 

[sparra1100]

your to far from me ,just keep plugging away but bear in mind you,ll find it hard as there loads like yourself trying to do the same thing good luck

 

[heatwarm]

Hi, new to this site, like a few have said you never stop learning, been in the trade for over 40 years now, still learn something new every week.

An ex RAF customer of mine took a plumbing and heating course before she left the service, thoughts of making big money to top up her pension. I had her with me for a few weeks, she didn't have a clue, she started doing her own work for friends and family and caused untold damage to ceilings, floors and carpets!!!! she now works as a security guard.

 

[PlumbBobBob]

as the saying goes "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing"