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Sounds like I touched a sore nerve there oldplumber. The last thing I want to do is get involved in an international incident. Let's just keep to the trades and not go into politics. Let's face it, neither of our countries innocent.
 
point Im trying to make is you cant compare how different countries carry out there routines, although Im bound to say that the yanks seem to have much better building regs standards of inspection than us, but we arent in the us so theres no point in wishing really.
 
You are absolutely right, attempting to compare legislation from other countries is pointless. The building codes are different. The problem is enforcement of those existing codes. It serves no purpose to have stringent legislation if there is not the manpower to enforce those laws. Good money is paid to Gas Safe by thousands of installers every year and we still get the response of "not enough inspectors to go around". Too many of us have seen shoddy work by "competent" installers. We are told that we are held to a higher standard but that standard can be purchased if we choose to throw money into a fast track training facility. This is where the problem lies. I know I will get flack for this but we need more frequency on inspections not more legislation .
 
the training is total rubbish,I actually met a guy who was a forman for a big firm and he had me worried with his lack of knowledge,not to mention the 2 cowboys that were doing 20 GLSC a day and lastly the bloke who was doing a purge managed to fill the place with gas and the instructor told him to get his coat, I went to a gas leak yesterday and some idiot had left a fitting HAND TIGHT unbeliveable

was it a meter nut by any chance? there is a safety update on this saying tightened nuts are found to be hand tight due to the washer "relaxing"
 
kirkgas you would say that as it is these courses who pay your wages as you are a trainer am i correct? no offence intended but i think this is why you think the way you do.
how you can say someone who has been in the industry for years is less competent than 3 guys on a gas foundation course is totally wrong or if its not wrong then its frightening.

lots of guys who are highly good at there job cant remember every gas regulation or minimum distance from this or that off the top of there head so maybe this is why it went into the third day? did they eventually pass anyway? i think so

and anyway kirk what college are you at?

yes i work in a training centre, but have said for many years that new entrants can join gas, when i did my ACOPS it was done as a group exercise, it isnt hard to learn is my point, do you think it is difficult to learn gas safety? i did say it is time consuming to learn fault finding, but as long as the basics are covered safely what is the problem with them joining the gas industry, there are many many of us who are not time served gas engineers but manage very well, so why cant an engineer, electronics person etc etc learn to do a TT and purge, it is due to working in assessing for the last 4yrs or so that allow me to comment on the "experts" that have been in the industry for many many yrs and are scary, yes they get through eventually, and it isnt all about pipe clip distances etc, there are tons of guys who cannot purge or gas rate an appliance without training, this is totally wrong for someone who is suypposodly doing a good install every day, so what is their excuse?
gas is easy so why cant other trades learn it?
plumbster3456 what is your trade background/experience in gas
 
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very interesting article puratherm, consider this also, what other proffesion has their qualification taken away from them and told it is now null and void? yes I refer to city and guilds gas service engineer certification. 3 years apprentiship with British Gas dosn't count for anything in the eyes of corgi now Gas Safe.Can you imagine any other proffesionals working in the public and private sector, saftey being parramount, being told efectivly that their 3 years plus successfull examination dosnt meen anything anymore!
I agree with your view to become a gas fitter after 5 months is crazy, I have 25 years in the industry but still look back and see just how valuable the apprentiship and training were.Funny thing is when presenting my papers here in France to the Chambre de metier (Bureau for all Artisans), the Guy listed me as an engineer de gaz I also had my corgi certification which added some confusion, I explained as best I could, however his response was " you have made an apprentiship you have the paper (city and guilds)therfore you are engineer de gaz c'est sa"
Any one else realised part p electrics you are qualified if you have city an guilds gas service engineer cert?
 
very interesting article puratherm, consider this also, what other proffesion has their qualification taken away from them and told it is now null and void? yes I refer to city and guilds gas service engineer certification. 3 years apprentiship with British Gas dosn't count for anything in the eyes of corgi now Gas Safe.Can you imagine any other proffesionals working in the public and private sector, saftey being parramount, being told efectivly that their 3 years plus successfull examination dosnt meen anything anymore!
I agree with your view to become a gas fitter after 5 months is crazy, I have 25 years in the industry but still look back and see just how valuable the apprentiship and training were.Funny thing is when presenting my papers here in France to the Chambre de metier (Bureau for all Artisans), the Guy listed me as an engineer de gaz I also had my corgi certification which added some confusion, I explained as best I could, however his response was " you have made an apprentiship you have the paper (city and guilds)therfore you are engineer de gaz c'est sa"
Any one else realised part p electrics you are qualified if you have city an guilds gas service engineer cert?

Good point the french dude makes.

1. train as a gas engineer
2. pass gas exams
3. clear to work on gas - Nope!
4. Pay gas safe
5. Now your clear
 
Any one else realised part p electrics you are qualified if you have city an guilds gas service engineer cert?

You're saying we can apply to any of the electrical registration bodies, and become registered Part P competant for electrics if we're a qualified gas installer?
 
whats worrying is the present system is a joke ,so it should be a laugh and a waste of a huge sum of money paid by us no doubt, I wont be doing any paperwork for anybody ever regardless of what the law says, It makes the mind boggle that some people are so dumb and think its good to notify

I'm genuinely interested in your opinion on this Gasmarc, why do you think it's a poor choice to notify?
Thanks in advance.
 
yes i work in a training centre, but have said for many years that new entrants can join gas, when i did my ACOPS it was done as a group exercise, it isnt hard to learn is my point, do you think it is difficult to learn gas safety? i did say it is time consuming to learn fault finding, but as long as the basics are covered safely what is the problem with them joining the gas industry, there are many many of us who are not time served gas engineers but manage very well, so why cant an engineer, electronics person etc etc learn to do a TT and purge, it is due to working in assessing for the last 4yrs or so that allow me to comment on the "experts" that have been in the industry for many many yrs and are scary, yes they get through eventually, and it isnt all about pipe clip distances etc, there are tons of guys who cannot purge or gas rate an appliance without training, this is totally wrong for someone who is suypposodly doing a good install every day, so what is their excuse?
gas is easy so why cant other trades learn it?
plumbster3456 what is your trade background/experience in gas


13 ,14 years plumber 10 years gas engineer worked gas servicing , repairs and years in installs why?
 
ok regarding the hand tight nut this was on a piece of gunbarrel not a meter, regarding notifying and all the other rubbish were suppose to do , I work for myself so why should I line someone else's pockets, wasting my time and costing me money also, now if it was for a good cause like a charity or for the good of the gas industry that would be different
 
when i was renting a house a year or so ago we had the boiler inspected each year for the three years we lived there.
the first inspection brought up quite a few faults however the inspector said the boiler was safe to use and no action was needed.
i took the cert into work and my boss at the time told me the boiler shouldnt be used as it could be potentially dangerous so he gave the land lord a call who couldnt have cared less.
next year the engineer missed out on some of the defects and when he had finished i pointed them out to him and told him they had not been repaired since the last visit, ''well if you want to be pedantic'' was his reply , the next year the engineer didnt see anything wrong at all, he didnt see the flue terminating too close to a window at waist with no flue guard on the central heating boiler nor the melted guttering above the unguarded flue for the hot water boiler , among other things.
i still have the certs here, i must fish them out.
our land lady said she uses these plumbers because they are cheap! cheap enough to over look potential problems.
i am sure these type of gas engineers are in the minority though.
 
Or not , I went on a callout last night to a boiler that was installed just over a year ago by my social housing installers (meaning the Co i work for) that as reportedly leaking , found that for the last year it had been dripping into a bowl placed under , I investigated and followed the brown water stains through the outer casing through the inner casing up through the top of the casings to the flue elbow joint, this was dripping profusely with water , The flue runs 4 meters horizontal with no flamming fall at all , as i could not inspect it further due to no access points i had to shut it down and ID it as i believe the flue is apart at some point , nearly another artical in GS mag i beleve , anyway to my utter disbelief i found some paperwork from the tenant and 3 seperate engineers ( and i use the word loosely) have previouse attended this boiler for the same reason and left it working and issued gslc , the last one being this year in july , by the one that is now the install supervisor , it beggars belief
 
Or not , I went on a callout last night to a boiler that was installed just over a year ago by my social housing installers (meaning the Co i work for) that as reportedly leaking , found that for the last year it had been dripping into a bowl placed under , I investigated and followed the brown water stains through the outer casing through the inner casing up through the top of the casings to the flue elbow joint, this was dripping profusely with water , The flue runs 4 meters horizontal with no flamming fall at all , as i could not inspect it further due to no access points i had to shut it down and ID it as i believe the flue is apart at some point , nearly another artical in GS mag i beleve , anyway to my utter disbelief i found some paperwork from the tenant and 3 seperate engineers ( and i use the word loosely) have previouse attended this boiler for the same reason and left it working and issued gslc , the last one being this year in july , by the one that is now the install supervisor , it beggars belief


I'd love to have heard the conversation you had with your supervisor about this, just as well he's off the tools now!
 
ok regarding the hand tight nut this was on a piece of gunbarrel not a meter, regarding notifying and all the other rubbish were suppose to do , I work for myself so why should I line someone else's pockets, wasting my time and costing me money also, now if it was for a good cause like a charity or for the good of the gas industry that would be different

It's three quid ya tight so and so! won't be coming to the pub with you then ha ha :eek:)
 
13 ,14 years plumber 10 years gas engineer worked gas servicing , repairs and years in installs why?

to see where in the industry you came from, NOT in any way to have a dig at you, to see where you served your time, so like me you are a time served plumber who then moved into gas, i was delighted to be offered the change to move "over" to gas i didnt see it as a step up, gas is just something else to do, but i had no experience at all, so why was i allowed to take up gas, why were you allowed to move over as well? 10yrs ago you would have been a Category 2 and wouldnt have needed a portfolio, so you went for your ACS then became gas registered, ok you have 10yrs experience under your belt, but who allowed you to join the "Great Gas Industry" without being a time served gas engineer, yes you served your time as a plumber but could have spent the 3-4 trs post apprenticeship (if you did an apprenticeship) doing domestic plumbing which has no more bearing on gas than any other trade which learns about safety, professionalism, etc etc, so my point is if you had served an apprenticeship in the electronics industry would you not be able to cross over just as a lot of guys and girls have to gas now, by doing a 6 month full time course, which is a hell of a lot more gas experience i had when i went for my ACOPS (i had NONE) passed my ACOPS and learned from there, i'm not particularly clever but worked damn hard to learn and progress myself so i must allow others to do the same, it isnt the new guys who are ruining the industry it is a mixture of all the things going on, (and i'm ready for the pelters for this one but as a Gas Manager trying to employ guys about 6-7 yrs ago too many came for an interview with the attitude that they "better" earn £40k (books in, company van, fuel card, company mobile, pension etc) or they would not entertain starting with us, the work was social housing servicing and maintenance, 5-6 BBU's or 8-9 combis a day, vastly over rating themselves out of a job
 
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when i was renting a house a year or so ago we had the boiler inspected each year for the three years we lived there.
the first inspection brought up quite a few faults however the inspector said the boiler was safe to use and no action was needed.
i took the cert into work and my boss at the time told me the boiler shouldnt be used as it could be potentially dangerous so he gave the land lord a call who couldnt have cared less.
next year the engineer missed out on some of the defects and when he had finished i pointed them out to him and told him they had not been repaired since the last visit, ''well if you want to be pedantic'' was his reply , the next year the engineer didnt see anything wrong at all, he didnt see the flue terminating too close to a window at waist with no flue guard on the central heating boiler nor the melted guttering above the unguarded flue for the hot water boiler , among other things.
i still have the certs here, i must fish them out.
our land lady said she uses these plumbers because they are cheap! cheap enough to over look potential problems.
i am sure these type of gas engineers are in the minority though.

i wished i shared your optimism
 
it might only be £3 to notify but thats a pint in my local and i would prefer to pay £13 to a good cause than to a bunch of suits ,I bet you a pound to a penny they will up the price big time soon or scrap the whole thing like ,THE HIPS JOKE ,A new stealth tax that we are suppose to pay
 
...And we all complained about CORGI!!!. GS promised this n that...manuals for all etc.. what we got? Nothing. CORGI still publish good books , think I prefer them
 
to see where in the industry you came from, NOT in any way to have a dig at you, to see where you served your time, so like me you are a time served plumber who then moved into gas, i was delighted to be offered the change to move "over" to gas i didnt see it as a step up, gas is just something else to do, but i had no experience at all, so why was i allowed to take up gas, why were you allowed to move over as well? 10yrs ago you would have been a Category 2 and wouldnt have needed a portfolio, so you went for your ACS then became gas registered, ok you have 10yrs experience under your belt, but who allowed you to join the "Great Gas Industry" without being a time served gas engineer, yes you served your time as a plumber but could have spent the 3-4 trs post apprenticeship (if you did an apprenticeship) doing domestic plumbing which has no more bearing on gas than any other trade which learns about safety, professionalism, etc etc, so my point is if you had served an apprenticeship in the electronics industry would you not be able to cross over just as a lot of guys and girls have to gas now, by doing a 6 month full time course, which is a hell of a lot more gas experience i had when i went for my ACOPS (i had NONE) passed my ACOPS and learned from there, i'm not particularly clever but worked damn hard to learn and progress myself so i must allow others to do the same, it isnt the new guys who are ruining the industry it is a mixture of all the things going on, (and i'm ready for the pelters for this one but as a Gas Manager trying to employ guys about 6-7 yrs ago too many came for an interview with the attitude that they "better" earn £40k (books in, company van, fuel card, company mobile, pension etc) or they would not entertain starting with us, the work was social housing servicing and maintenance, 5-6 BBU's or 8-9 combis a day, vastly over rating themselves out of a job


ok point taken but there is a very big difference from a plumber doing gas than there is some one from electronics doing gas.
gas servicng /repairs aside how can someone do the installation side of gas without having served there time as either a plumber or heating engineer who get hands on experience of installing copper pipes ,bending and soldering etc.
I would say yes let everyone who wants to sit the gas a chance at doing so but to only have to produce 100 hours and sit a 6 weeks course who is then qualified to install a boiler is not right this is maybe why there are so many cowboy storys from registered engineers.
I can say for one if i became gas registered without the training i got when i was younger i would not know where to start fitting a boiler i.e. you need to know what type of system is in the house if going to price a new boiler, what pipes to cut out and which to cap when doing system conversions, you will need plumbing skills to cut into the waste for the condensate or how else will you no how to order the correct fitting for the correct size of pipe 1 1/4"or 1 1/2" blah blah of course plumbing is the direct route to the installation side of gas.
servicing and repairs anyone can do including a butcher retraining or or even a farmer BUT NOT AFTER 6 WEEKS
 
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