Gas Safety Valve question!

[kasbek]

Morning Ladies & Gents.
Probably a simple query; I'm having a kitchen in my Housing Association fitted by contractors and they've reached the point where they're connecting everything back. Previously i had an electric free-standing cooker but I've now inherited my mum's Zanussi hob, which I've asked the fitters to install. The PM has just rung me to say the gas fitter can't install the hob nowadays without a GSV (gas safety valve) as the older hob doesn't have an internal one and there's regulations nowadays etc.

Fair enough. It has to be connected to the pipe that leads up to the hob. Apparently it's my responsibility to purchase this, as a Housing Association tenant, and the gas man (or woman!) will fit it. Questions: Where do i get one, preferably off-the-shelf. and over the next couple of days? How will i know it's the correct one and if i move, does that mean i can take it with me! ha ha. The PM hasn't a clue so I'm hoping one of you can help! I live in Bow, East London.

Many thanks in advance!

Kasbek.

 

[rsr]

This is a job for a Gas Safe registered engineer and whoever the customer is (tenant, owner etc) it's up to the engineer to provide the required fittings. The gas supply pipe to the hob will need a shut off valve fitted and it's for the engineer to provide and install as part of the job.

 

[Hardy1]

gas safety valve??- i think you mean a backplate and bayonet fixing??- the gas engineer should be able to fit it for you and just charge you for it.

 

[midge]

Is your property a flat?
It sounds like your hob doesn't have FFDs on the burners in which case it won't meet regulations.

 

[stevetheplumber]

that was my take on this is it a multiple dwelling?

 

[Puddle]

or has it a glass lid maybe?

 

[jtsplumbing]

First its a second hand hob , no installation instructions ! no install ! second do-not connect hob with bayonet & hose ,must be ridged pipe with gas valve, 3td must have ffd safety device. non of these and when you get your next safety inspection it will be diconnected .:conehead:

 

[Puddle]

First its a second hand hob , no installation instructions ! no install ! second do-not connect hob with bayonet & hose ,must be ridged pipe with gas valve, 3td must have ffd safety device. non of these and when you get your next safety inspection it will be diconnected .:conehead:

a hob can be connected with a flexible hose ,this is not against regs as long as not subjected to high temps

non of the above would make it be disconnected after a gas inspection,no ffd is only ncs

 

[jtsplumbing]

OK stand corrected on hose ,still do-not like hobs fitted this way, but understood that it was a requirement that cookers / hobs fitted in rented accomadation or flats have to be fitted with FFD (New install) whitch this would be class`d as, yes excisting ntc, but do-not think he would be alloud to fit his mums old hob with out FFD, You comments please.

 

[GrahamM]

OK stand corrected on hose ,still do-not like hobs fitted this way, but understood that it was a requirement that cookers / hobs fitted in rented accomadation or flats have to be fitted with FFD (New install) whitch this would be class`d as, yes excisting ntc, but do-not think he would be alloud to fit his mums old hob with out FFD, You comments please.

Almost right. It is only multi-occupancy dwellings that must have FSD's on any new appliance.

 

[kasbek]

Thanks for responding guys. i live on my own. -i don't mind having the FSD, but i really just wondered where i could get one.. Bear in mind the HA are providing the gas engineer, so the installation's out of my hands, and any procedures, i imagine, will be followed correctly.

I take it then the gas fitter provides all the necessary bits and bobs? I'm wondering why then the PM rang me in a flurry because the fitter couldn't install the hob rather than just saying "It'll cost this much, do you want us to go ahead?"

 

[anz]

a hob can be connected with a flexible hose ,this is not against regs as long as not subjected to high temps

non of the above would make it be disconnected after a gas inspection,no ffd is only ncs

You can't install something as NCS, if your going to install something, it has to comply with existing regulations.

 

[anz]

Thanks for responding guys. i live on my own. -i don't mind having the FSD, but i really just wondered where i could get one.. Bear in mind the HA are providing the gas engineer, so the installation's out of my hands, and any procedures, i imagine, will be followed correctly.

I take it then the gas fitter provides all the necessary bits and bobs? I'm wondering why then the PM rang me in a flurry because the fitter couldn't install the hob rather than just saying "It'll cost this much, do you want us to go ahead?"

Chances are you won't be able to install an FSD on the hob, if it wasn't designed for one. Your only choice is to buy one that already has one.

Usually housing associations only install gas appliances owned by themselves, such as a boiler or fire. If the hob is yours, then it might be your responsibility to get someone to fit it.

 

[stevetheplumber]

living on your own is irelevent are you in a block of flats or a house thats been split into flats?
If yes then the hob you have is n good and youll need to buy one that got ffd fitted its not some thing you can retrofit

 

[AWheating]

the engineer probably only ever fits free standing cookers with hoses and bayonets. So he will need a 15mm gas cock or something simular. i would speak to the engineer yourself as only he/she can tell you exactly what is needed.

If your second hand hob does not have the manufactures instructions, the fixing clips and seal then it wont get fitted by a gas safe engineer anyway.

 

[ADM360]

As I live and work in housing assotioation house here's my two penneth!!!

the assosiation i'm with will not fit a cooker, in fact they fit nothing at all, when we moved in only spaces for appliances to fit into. I think they work on the fact that every appliance whether gas, electric or solid fuel require service, mantainace and certification every year so if its not fitted they don't have to do it!!

they fit supplies. eg. capped of gas supply in cooker space, cooker lecy point etc. it is then up to the tennent to get the appliances connected to the supply by an appropriately qulified engineer that can be verified by the housing assosiation, ie invoice and gas safe ticket. our require you to ask first for such works!

they should supply you with a gas point behind cooker space, you would then need to find your own GRS engineer to connect up. you could aks the fiiter on site but you can run into problems of whos Gas Safe ticket he can work on Etc....

Hope this is of some help!!!

 

[southcoastboile]

just to clarify, can you can still fit a hob with no ffd as long as its not in a multi dwelling?

 

[jtsplumbing]

Been told if you buy a cooker / hob from comet , curries ect they now ask what sort of property you live in, think they do this because they offer fitting service,

 

[ADM360]

Been told if you buy a cooker / hob from comet , curries ect they now ask what sort of property you live in, think they do this because they offer fitting service,

probaly to work out how much to charge for delivery, so much for ground floor flat, but Oh!! third floor flat that'll be!!!!

 

[anz]

Been told if you buy a cooker / hob from comet , curries ect they now ask what sort of property you live in, think they do this because they offer fitting service,

That's because they were getting a lot of returns from people who purchased a non FSD appliance for a flat. (The customers only found out it wasn't right when the gas fitter told them)

Now they have little notices up, telling people that they need an FSD and have obviously told their staff to ask.

 

[Puddle]

For what it must cost manufacturers to fit fsd's on hobs,can not see why they do not just fit to all,it would make sense,they would gain from spares sales

imho

 

[kirkgas]

You can't install something as NCS, if your going to install something, it has to comply with existing regulations.

i agree with what you say, but if you read the relevant TB on this it tells you that you can indeed fit it and classify it as NCs

 

[kirkgas]

just to clarify, can you can still fit a hob with no ffd as long as its not in a multi dwelling?

is this a serious question from a registered gas engineer?
for all regular ACS gets slagged ona daily basis on here at least some guys use it as a form of CPD, seriously how do you guys keep updated with the reg changes?

 

[kirkgas]

Been told if you buy a cooker / hob from comet , curries ect they now ask what sort of property you live in, think they do this because they offer fitting service,

its not illegal to buy a cooker with no FSD if you live in a flat, its just illegal to get it fitted!!!!!!!!!!

 

[GrahamM]

is this a serious question from a registered gas engineer?
for all regular ACS gets slagged ona daily basis on here at least some guys use it as a form of CPD, seriously how do you guys keep updated with the reg changes?

Not making any excuses for anyone, but there is a serious flaw within the industry, that being there is a major oversight in keeping us updated with the latest regulation changes and TB's.
In my opinion, as soon as you pass your ACS you should submit an email address where any updates are automatically sent and this also should include full access to a database with all the TB's, BS etc. This should be a mater of course.
There would then be no excuse for not keeping upto date and every engineer would have access to the information that ensures we are all working to the latest standards.
I worked as a subie for some time, and the company I had my ticket through were not passing on any TB or Reg updates to it's engineers.

This whole set-up is a shambles.