Gassing up ?

[Jedny]

Hi all
im a newbie here so go easy please hone:
im after some views on my problem ! Ive installed a new boiler and cylinder on an exsisting system and made it into a sealed system with a worcester system boiler and a megaflo cylinder and the system had sentinol sludge remover installed for a month before i powerflushed then done the install etc (powerflush was very clean)
the system has been drained and filled etc and sentinol x100 installed but the customers is complaining that the towel rail is allways needing to be vented every three/four days but he never has to top up the system Up so deffo no leak etc im thinking its gassing up due to chemicals etc but wondering if any other causes or if you guys had any thoughts about a cure etc been going on for eight months now !
Thanks for any info

Jed

 

[diamondgas]

:welcome: to the forum jedny

How long has the changeover been in? It can take some time for the system to settle?

 

[mountainman]

Gotta say Jed, if you are capable and licenced to install this job then you shouldn't be trawling this forum as a newbie.
I could be wrong tho, often am!

 

[Jedny]

Hi thanks for the speedy reply
its been installed for eight months but the customer has only just told me about this
ive thought about installing an auto airvent but concerned that this will just madk the problem

 

[mountainman]

:welcome: to the forum jedny

How long has the changeover been in? It can take some time for the system to settle?

OP says Eight Months!

 

[Jedny]

Im a newbie as in to the forum just after some info as ive had it once before but this was due to cheap chemicals but never happened with sentinol

 

[jtsplumbing]

Pulling in air from somewere is excisting pipe work in plastic ? if so is it barrier Pipe ?

 

[diamondgas]

Hi thanks for the speedy reply
its been installed for eight months but the customer has only just told me about this
ive thought about installing an auto airvent but concerned that this will just madk the problem

Maybe that the flush didn't do the job successfully Jed ....... If you used Sentinel products then you can get a water sample off to them for analysis!! Not sure of the cost but may pay to do so in the long run? word of mouth can make you a fortune, do the best for your customer and the rewards can escalate IMHO

 

[Jedny]

I only use copper and its a sealed system with no pressure drop at all so 99% sure no leaks powerflush was crystal and system piped up in 15mm to rads and all rads spot on only thing to mention is customer insisted the towel rail to be installed on primary supplies to cylinder and not on heating circuit

 

[jtsplumbing]

Ok you have used copper on what you have done but what about excisting pipework ??

 

[dancinplumba]

Have you or cust tried to see if the gas from towel rail smells or burns ?

 

[diamondgas]

I only use copper and its a sealed system with no pressure drop at all so 99% sure no leaks powerflush was crystal and system piped up in 15mm to rads and all rads spot on only thing to mention is customer insisted the towel rail to be installed on primary supplies to cylinder and not on heating circuit

If your system is sealed then there's electrolytic action or bacterial action you've got to consider! On a sealed system bacterial is dead above 65[SUP]o[/SUP]C ... Most likely cause is electrolytic, corrosion for want of a better word! So, in my opinion, you need to look at the effectiveness of the flush and subsequent inhibiting!! .... Give Sentinel a call and ask them how you get a sample to them! If you've done a good job it'll come back okay, if not they'll give you recommendations! what you got to loose?

 

[Jedny]

Thanks for the info
i wish the customer told me about this months ago then i would of sorted this
im going to take a sample and send it off to sentinol as ive used there chemicals as in x400 and x100 and ive used there poerflushing machine aswell so im sure they will help

 

[tamz]

I only use copper and its a sealed system with no pressure drop at all so 99% sure no leaks powerflush was crystal and system piped up in 15mm to rads and all rads spot on only thing to mention is customer insisted the towel rail to be installed on primary supplies to cylinder and not on heating circuit

Bad idea! Rule number 1. Don't do things because a customer thinks that is how it should work.
Have you actually witnessed the air being released from this towel rail.
Being on the primary circuit the towel rail will be off most of the time as the cylinder will heat (or reheat) quickly. It will then come off and on for a few minutes at a time throughout the switching period depending on the hot water draw.

People are generally thick. They think if something is not heating then it needs bled.
Tell him next time it "needs bled" to leave it and give you a call. It won't need bled but will be cold (or luke warm)
Then charge him to reconfigure the pipes to put the rail either on the heating side or on its own circuit.

 

[diamondgas]

Thanks for the info
i wish the customer told me about this months ago then i would of sorted this
im going to take a sample and send it off to sentinol as ive used there chemicals as in x400 and x100 and ive used there poerflushing machine aswell so im sure they will help

big PLEASE Jedny ... Let us know the out come yeh? It's all well and good us giving advice but was it right? Honestly it's the route I'd take but until that sample comes back who knows?

Steve

 

[Jedny]

Im deffo going to send the sample off and by the sounds of it i think it is a problem with electrolytic problem
the customer is the type that will research the problem himself and is extremely clued up so i would never doubt him
would it also be an idea to have the system earth bonded or does this have no effect

 

[tamz]

The extremely clued up customer is a not as clued up as he thinks he is. If he was that smart he would have been a plumber.
You are wasting your (hopefully his) money getting it tested. I told you above what the problem is.
Tell him to do himself a favour and bin the air key and to research the reheat time of a megaflow.

 

[Jedny]

He knows about how the system works etc thats never been the issue the problem is hes having to take air/gas out of the towel rail every three days as its only warm half way up and hes not needing to recharge the system once in eight months but ive only been made aware of the problem today

 

[jtsplumbing]

Maybe pinhole in cylinder coil !

 

[tamz]

I hope you are not footing the bill for him to learn something simple.

 

[Jedny]

Srry but youve lost me on this one
the problem is not with how its piped up etc the problem is that he is having to take air or gas out of the t/r constantly And never recharging the system

 

[tamz]

Ok then

 

[AWheating]

kamco will make you a inhibitor for systems that continue to gass up.

http://www.kamco.co.uk/GuidanceNotes/PDF/Gassing.pdf

this is the link to there guide to dealing with gassing problems.

did you check ph levels after the flush?

 

[Jedny]

Thanks for the info
going to do all the checks and find out as every problem has a solution

 

[AWheating]

keep us posted on how you get on.