Help and Advice on Gas Safe Engineer not registering installation with Gas Safe

[PowerFlusher2]

Whatever you do you MUST address the problem (make the complaint) with Gas Safe Register within a year (assuming it remains unresolved) because after that time Gas Safe Register will not be interested. Within the 12 months they MIGHT be able to issue the certificate if they contact the installer and he confirms he did the job, and, of course, he remains a GSR. Why GSR can do no more than that is because they have no legal status and can take no other action than cancelling a GSR registration, but they WILL NOT do that because they then lose the membership fees. It is, actually, a criminal offence, since 2005, for a GSR NOT to register an installation he has completed but local building control will not pursue a case through the courts because an alternative method of acquiring the certificate is available if you pay them (GBP365.00p in our area) they will do the check, carry out the test and issue the certificate - and they might even use the GSR who did the job for you - if he is local - because they don't have any GSRs of their own! Obtaining the certificate, however, is the property owners problem. If the installer does the registration through GSR it costs him GBP2.50p. Absolutely LUDICROUS situation, isn't it?

 

[lame plumber]

not sure how not issung a building regs ticket can be a criminal offence! did their lordships introduce a act of parliment making it so recently, will the boys in blue be knocking on my door at dawn coz a farmer didnt want to pay me £2.50 for a ticket!!

 

[Reg Man]

If you do not follow the building control procedures set out for handling your building work or you carry out building work which does not comply with the requirements contained in the Building Regulations you will have contravened them. Failure to comply with the Building Regulations is a criminal offence and local authorities have the power to require the removal or alteration of completed work that does not comply with these requirements. The person carrying out work that contravenes the Building Regulations can be fined up to £5,000 per contravention, and £50 each day the contravention continues.

Can't see this ever happening, but who knows? (information is from the government portal)

 

[lame plumber]

if you install a boiler correctly how can anyone do you for not filling out a form thehouseholder is ultimately responsible for completing, all you can do is lose you gsr ticket for not complying with their policy!

 

[REDSAW]

i always get mine done within 6months!

 

[Reg Man]

if you install a boiler correctly how can anyone do you for not filling out a form thehouseholder is ultimately responsible for completing, all you can do is lose you gsr ticket for not complying with their policy!

Its the process driven world we live in.

 

[Ermintrude]

You may be surprised I had argument ( me - never) with gas safe about this , desk jockey at other end asked if he was competent ( as in gsr technical help) I said not sure , he assured me that he was more qualified than I, I asked if he was registered as an installer or had fga, he changed subject to how competence could be measured!
Gas safe is rubbish , slightly better than the old boys club Called corgi.

 

[Reg Man]

You may be surprised I had argument ( me - never) with gas safe about this , desk jockey at other end asked if he was competent ( as in gsr technical help) I said not sure , he assured me that he was more qualified than I, I asked if he was registered as an installer or had fga, he changed subject to how competence could be measured!
Gas safe is rubbish , slightly better than the old boys club Called corgi.

Don't go down this route you will be blown out of the water and sunk deeper than the Titanic.

 

[Ermintrude]

Ok point taken. Backing off toward the door.......

 

[Reg Man]

Ok point taken. Backing off toward the door.......

No problems mate. That's what the forums about.

 

[Mrs Tara Plumbi]

If you do not follow the building control procedures set out for handling your building work or you carry out building work which does not comply with the requirements contained in the Building Regulations you will have contravened them. Failure to comply with the Building Regulations is a criminal offence and local authorities have the power to require the removal or alteration of completed work that does not comply with these requirements. The person carrying out work that contravenes the Building Regulations can be fined up to £5,000 per contravention, and £50 each day the contravention continues.

I remember you posting a link to this ages ago - which shows that the person doing the work is responsible for making sure it complies with Building Regs.
Really useful.
BUT
Isn't it the homeowner who is responsible for notification?
Yes notifiable work MUST be notified - that is the law but I thought it wa the homeowners responsibility
but obviously heating installers offer this service as it is is cheap and easy to do it that way.

I have no time now to look up a reference for this but perhaps someone else can confirm one way or the other.

 

[Reg Man]

I remember you posting a link to this ages ago - which shows that the person doing the work is responsible for making sure it complies with Building Regs.
Really useful.
BUT
Isn't it the homeowner who is responsible for notification?
Yes notifiable work MUST be notified - that is the law but I thought it wa the homeowners responsibility
but obviously heating installers offer this service as it is is cheap and easy to do it that way.

I have no time now to look up a reference for this but perhaps someone else can confirm one way or the other.

Yes Tara your absolutely correct, it is ultimately the home owners responsibility, but that's one of the reasons it encourages them to use the proper registered trades people who can register the work for them. If they have gone down the correct route they should expect that work to be registered by the tradesman they have used.

 

[lame plumber]

it may be nothing, but our op has yet to answer the questions asked re did he pay the installer!!!!!!

 

[Ermintrude]

it may be nothing, but our op has yet to answer the questions asked re did he pay the installer!!!!!!

Yeh I kept hinting at this...,, suspicious really? Wouldn't ever say why. I know everyone falls on hard times but landlords and letting agents should always pay upfront !

 

[PowerFlusher2]

not sure how not issung a building regs ticket can be a criminal offence! did their lordships introduce a act of parliment making it so recently, will the boys in blue be knocking on my door at dawn coz a farmer didnt want to pay me £2.50 for a ticket!!

Not recently, on 1st April 2005 - surely Gas Safe tell you this as part of your update courses?

 

[lame plumber]

if anyone out there has ever been done by the boys in blue for not registering a boiler , do let us know, some how I dont expect any responses on this one

 

[PowerFlusher2]

if anyone out there has ever been done by the boys in blue for not registering a boiler , do let us know, some how I dont expect any responses on this one

On the very first page of their website the Gas Safe Register quite clearly states 'only a Gas Safe Qualified and Registered Installer can notify the installation of a gas appliance'. After that crystal clear statement, they then go on to say that 'where a Gas Safe Qualified and Registered Installer does not report a gas installation, the responsibility falls on the owner of the property' - who, we must assume is also Gas Safe Registered because 'ONLY' Gas Safe Registered Installers can notify gas installations.

So their own first correct interpretation of Bulding Control Regulations is contradicted by their second statement.

Use of the word LUDICROUS is fully justified here?

 

[vern]

I will cut to the chase, when the OP pays up, he might get a certificate, this question has been dodged more than once

 

[anz]

According to this its the RGE's responsibility and it should be done within 30 days.

 

[tamz]

Read words 5 6 and 7 of the first sentance. It don't apply up my way and if you read further it is not really the responsibility of the RGI. They just offer a service to make things easier.

if anyone out there has ever been done by the boys in blue for not registering a boiler , do let us know, some how I dont expect any responses on this one

No boys in blue but a few got pulled with the men with briefcases for listening to corgi /gas safe.
Personally i have never registered even as much as one boiler despite the threats from corgi ( i told them to gtf ) as i knew the consequences for some jobs ( "we will never disclose any details to anyone" was their cry) I'm not zipped up the back so why encourage them.
If i lived south of the border i may have done it different, but i don't.

 

[Mrs Tara Plumbi]

Not recently, on 1st April 2005 - surely Gas Safe tell you this as part of your update courses?

2005 is recent - to me anyway, and I'm only 45.

I was also a landlady with tenants before the Gas Rags of 1998 required Annual Safety inspections - but as that was quite a while ago I don't think of it as recent anymore.

 

[Mrs Tara Plumbi]

If you look at
[DLMURL]https://engineers.User PlumbersForums.net Instead - Copy the content, don't link to it.co.uk/NotificationsFAQ.aspx[/DLMURL]
It says

4. Why is Gas Safe Register involved with the notification of Building Regulations compliance?The Building Regulations for England and Wales (Schedule 3; Self Certification Schemes and Exemptions from Requirements to Give Building Notice or Deposit Full Plans), make reference to 'the installation of a heat producing gas appliance' by'a person, or an employee of a person who is a member of a class of persons approved in accordance with Regulation 3 of the Gas Safety (Installation & Use) Regulations 1998'.
This means that Gas Safe registered engineers can operate under self certification for the installation of heat producing gas appliances. Therefore, Gas Safe Register (or one of its approved 3rd parties), is the only method by which gas work can be self certified.

To me this does NOT say Gas Engineers MUST notify.
I've looked though various BR documents aimed at the public and they aren't really clear.
And of course they are constantly changing ammeding BR - how annoying is that!

 

[Reg Man]

There are two separate issues here. The mandatory requirement under the gas regulations to be a member of a class of persons to carry out gas work, which is your responsibility. The requirement to notify LABC for the installation of fixed heat producing appliances, which is the customers responsibility. To make life easier for building control, they have put trust in the industry for those qualified people to allow them to self certificate their own work for building regulations compliance through a system of competent person schemes, which GSR run in parallel to the mandatory gas registration. So that when a customer goes into a contract with an installer to have a boiler installed the installer can get the relevant compliance notice issued without the customer having to go through the arduous expensive process of dealing directly with building control. I think the biggest issue here is why the customer has to achieve building regulation compliance for this type of work in the first place? Is it just another unnecessary system in a complicated over regulated world we live in, or does it serve a constructive valuable purpose? Personally I think it does serve one purpose only, in as much that it proves that the system has been installed by an approved installer, further than this I can not see any benefit. So why can't the benchmark log satisfy the requirement without having all this added expense for both customer and installer? After all its only another bit of paper that does not really mean that much.

 

[Ermintrude]

Never seen a landlord that fussed about bits of paper before or that interested in paying for what he got. Probably bumped installer, letting agent wants cp12 or its a HMO job and environmental health asked ll for Certs, he has only got a brown stain in his kegs ?

 

[Mrs Tara Plumbi]

.... does it serve a constructive valuable purpose? Personally I think it does serve one purpose only, in as much that it proves that the system has been installed by an approved installer, further than this I can not see any benefit. So why can't the benchmark log satisfy the requirement without having all this added expense for both customer and installer? After all its only another bit of paper that does not really mean that much.

I think it is supposed to prove that the installation complies with building regs - not only will it be HE A rated boiler installed but it will have the necessary controls and zones.
We know that this is nonsense.
Engineers pay the £2.50 and register the boilers with gas safe even when the installation does not come up to current Building Regs.
And loads of "budget" installations are not to current B Regs.

People don't understand the Regs (including heating engineers who are supposed to implement them) - not surprising when the keep changing!
There is no incentive to comply with building regs - because it makes our quote more expensive and most families want the cheaper option.

eg. Good to advise people that TRVs , controls, zones, etc might benefit them and save them money but making it compulsory and therefore more expensive to have a simple boiler replacement is not good.

Personallly I think the B.R. in relation to heating is a mess - a pain for small business heating engineers - like us.