Help-Central heating probs?

[Ex-Pat]

Hello All,

Got a radiater which will not heat up properly. When it was installed approx. 10 years ago, I'm sure it worked OK but now, bottom cool, top warmer. I'm sure the feed comes in via the "lock valve" at bottom (pipework very hot) and exits via the TRV on same side at top (pipework not so hot even if TRV set on max.) Flow problem? Opened the lock valve to max. but no improvement !

When I renovated the house, I told the plumber that the boiler would need to cater for 16 rads and hot water. The boiler is a Saint Roch Couvin, Optimelor Gold Line 4 (Kw 36.05-43.03 ) (Kcal/h 31-37.000). The pump is a Salmson MXL 12-32 P. Never had a problem from either, although I think the boiler thermostat, set at 80C, is cutting in long before the rads reach temp.

Thought the pump may not be powerful enough and started looking for a replacement. The port to port measure is 17.5 cms, but it seems all of the pumps available are 13.00cms. Any ideas?

Thanks in advance

 

[michael c]

sounds like radiator is sludged up your system needs flushed. Sludge tends to collect in centre of rads 1st. Post your location and someone may be able to qoute you for the work.

 

[Blake]

Remove the head of the TRV valve and see if the pin is stuck closed. If it is, carefully pull it up a fraction to free it off.

 

[Terry_the_piper]

Depending on the type of trv be careful. some of the pins pull right out and will spurt hot water at you. This usually results in a panicy attempt to re-insert it and your fingers won't what you want them to. Not that this has ever happened to me you understand. Honest. Much.

 

[Terry_the_piper]

Ex-pat? says it all. (unless your name was formally Patrick, or Patricia)

 

[Ex-Pat]

sounds like radiator is sludged up your system needs flushed. Sludge tends to collect in centre of rads 1st. Post your location and someone may be able to qoute you for the work.

Thank you very much for your advice and will give it a try. I live in France about 50 miles due west of Geneva, so a quote for the work may be more than a new system.
As I said, I think the hot water arrives via the lock-valve, would this cause problems in balancing the rad???
Any advice on the pump??
Regardless, thanks very much !!!

 

[Ex-Pat]

Remove the head of the TRV valve and see if the pin is stuck closed. If it is, carefully pull it up a fraction to free it off.

Thank you for your reply. Checked that when I changed the TRV.
Any advice on the pump??

 

[Ex-Pat]

Funny named boiler? Are you in the UK?

Not in the UK, hence the Ex-Pat. In France, about 50miles west of Geneva.
I think the boiler is Belgian or French.
Regardless, is the boiler good enough to supply 16 rads and the hot water ??
Also, any news on the pump ?? I think Salmson are something to do with Wilo now.

 

[Ex-Pat]

Ex-pat? says it all. (unless your name was formally Patrick, or Patricia)

Thank you for your reply.
If this is the sort of help you offer, no wonder nobody has ever thanked you in this forum.

 

[Ex-Pat]

For your pump.

Toolstation > Heating > Central Heating > Pump Adaptor

Will do, but if my existing pump is working correctly and adequate for the 16 rads etc. why buy another??

 

[SimonG]

You need a plumber and charm school pal.

 

[stevetheplumber]

take the head of and give the trv a few sharp raps on the side its probably stuck shut especially if youve had it closed for a while

 

[Paulplumb]

Thank you for your reply.
If this is the sort of help you offer, no wonder nobody has ever thanked you in this forum.

He has now, jog on.

Ps hope you need a new boiler

 

[dancinplumba]

He has now, jog on.

Ps hope you need a new boiler

Who ?

 

[michael c]

most likely a fault with either the trv or the rad being sludged as only fault with 1 rad. Check the rad when been on for half an hour or so to see if just cold around middle or all the bottom of the rad. If middle you have a sludged rad otherwise i would expect the trv. If you cant free the pin get a new trv. Also the trv should go on the flow pipe to prevent hammer (not as important on new trvs as should be multidirectional but still advisable)

 

[Ex-Pat]

He has now, jog on.

Ps hope you need a new boiler

Really can't understand the need for your comment.

I thought the purpose of this forum was for someone in need of help and advice, to be able to receive the same from a serious and professional person in the trade.
Obviuosly I was wrong, judging by yours and terry the pipers remarks, both of which remind me of the words of a spoilt child who should be sent to the headmaster.
I feel very sorry for you two, as you are in desperate need of help in the social graces aspects of life.

 

[Ex-Pat]

You need a plumber and charm school pal.

Probably, but I thought you were one??

 

[Ex-Pat]

Who ?

He's talking about his mate Terry the Piper. Have another look at his "Ex-Pat ? says it all" reply. Paulplum gave him a "thank you".

 

[Ex-Pat]

take the head of and give the trv a few sharp raps on the side its probably stuck shut especially if youve had it closed for a while

Thanks for your advice. In fact the pin moves freely in and out dependant upon required temp. setting.

 

[Barry98]

Wind it in or go else where

 

[Ex-Pat]

most likely a fault with either the trv or the rad being sludged as only fault with 1 rad. Check the rad when been on for half an hour or so to see if just cold around middle or all the bottom of the rad. If middle you have a sludged rad otherwise i would expect the trv. If you cant free the pin get a new trv. Also the trv should go on the flow pipe to prevent hammer (not as important on new trvs as should be multidirectional but still advisable)

The rad is hot at the inflow, which is at the bottom, warmish at top near the outflow and coolish elsewhere.
I presume a flush is required ? The rad is a double panel 120cms x 90cms. How much water approx. is in it?? Need to be sure I have a big enough bucket.

 

[SimonG]

Probably, but I thought you were one??

Top sense of humour.

 

[michael c]

unfortunately you will have to drain a little bit at a time. Unsure how much water will be in sorry

 

[Dotty]

The rad is hot at the inflow, which is at the bottom, warmish at top near the outflow and coolish elsewhere.
I presume a flush is required ? The rad is a double panel 120cms x 90cms. How much water approx. is in it?? Need to be sure I have a big enough bucket.

More water than can be held in a bucket! You need to take the radiator off, take it outside and connect it. Run wate through it till it runs clear.

 

[Dotty]

Although rereading that it looks more like a balancing issue!

How To Balance Radiators
Tool List:

Radiator-bleeding key
Lockshield valve adjuster or adjustable spanner
Screwdriver
Digital thermometer or multimeter with thermometer function



1. Make sure all the radiators have been bled. Turn off the central heating and allow the radiators to cool.

2. Familiarise yourself with the valves. The lockshield will usually have a push-on cap or one that is secured with a screw through the top. Remove it.

3. Older models will have a wheelhead valve on the other side — used to turn the radiator on/off.

4. Newer radiators will have a thermostatic valve instead of a wheelhead valve.

5. Open up the valves on all the radiators in the house by turning them anti-clockwise.Wheelhead and thermostatic valves can be turned easily by hand, but the lockshield will need a plastic adjuster to open it up. These come with new lockshield valves. A spanner will also do the job.

6. Turn the central heating back on and note down the order the radiators heat up. Those nearest the boiler normally get hot first. If you’ve got a lot of radiators, get assistance. Turn the heating off and wait while the radiators cool down.

7. When the radiators are cool, switch the heating back on and go to the first radiator on your list. Turn the lockshield valve clockwise until it is closed and then open it by a quarter of a turn. Once the radiator has warmed up, take a temperature reading at the pipework leading to one of the valves.

8. Now take a temperature reading at the pipework leading to the other valve and open the lockshield valve gradually until there’s a 12°C difference between now and the reading you took in step 7 (allow a couple of minutes after each adjustment for the temperature to change). The temperature figures indicated in the last step and this one are relevant to the radiator shown – don’t take them as any kind of optimum figure – it’s the 12°C difference in temperature at the valves that counts. Next, check the rest of the radiators in the system following the order in the list. The further you move away from the boiler, you’ll find the lockshield valve will have to be opened more. The last radiator may need to have the lockshield valve fully open to work at full efficiency. Your radiators are now balanced and should work perfectly.

Getting A Temperature

A key part of this job is measuring the temperature difference across each radiator. Specially designed thermometers that strap round the pipes at either end of the radiator are available to buy or hire, but it’s not really necessary to use these. You can get away with a single digital thermometer — it just means that you can’t take simultaneous readings and you’ll have to move from one end of the radiator to the other.

Digital thermometers are available from around £10. Alternatively, some digital multimeters have a temperature sensor function. A digital multimeter with temperature function costs from £25 and can also be used for taking electrical readings and checking continuity in wires, among dozens of other functions.