Hep2o in Heating Installs

[jaydebruyne]

Worcester say a minimum of 600mm before joining into plastic, Baxi say 300mm, other mis have no requirement.

Why exactly is it that some manufacturers have specific lengths before joining into plastic?

I've just read the data sheet for hep pipe and although it may shorten the 50 year life expectancy of hep if the temp reached 100 degrees in fault condition, it's perfectly safe at 90 degrees and all temps below up to 6bar at 90 degrees.

So why the need for minimum lengths of copper before plastic?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

You will find them temps will be under 1 min I bet and I always say 1 length of copper if you can

 

[Leo21]

I really wouldn't worry about it, just put a bit of copper in first.

 

[jaydebruyne]

You will find them temps will be under 1 min I bet and I always say 1 length of copper if you can

What do you mean Shaun, don't really understand what you said?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

What do you mean Shaun, don't really understand what you said?

There will be a max time it can take the temp for, should say where it's listed (temp)

 

[Masood]

Shaun has it spot on. The temperature ratings for all plastic pipe is based on time as well as temperature. So it might say safe at 90°, but only up to 5 minutes.

 

[jaydebruyne]

Shaun has it spot on. The temperature ratings for all plastic pipe is based on time as well as temperature. So it might say safe at 90°, but only up to 5 minutes.

But then wouldn't that be the same even after a meter? You might lose a couple of degrees from the boiler to a meter but I still don't see the issue?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not planning to do a plastic system but I'm just curious. As mis have differing lengths so it must be a gray area.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

But then wouldn't that be the same even after a meter? You might lose a couple of degrees from the boiler to a meter but I still don't see the issue?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not planning to do a plastic system but I'm just curious. As mis have differing lengths so it must be a gray area.

Would say if you connected straight to boiler and under fault it got to above 90 dc the plastic pipe would go soft and not hold and would pull from the olives

 

[jaydebruyne]

Would say if you connected straight to boiler and under fault it got to above 90 dc the plastic pipe would go soft and not hold and would pull from the olives

I hear what you're saying, but wouldn't that be the same issue if you connected it to plastic 300mm under the boiler, or a meter?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I hear what you're saying, but wouldn't that be the same issue if you connected it to plastic 300mm under the boiler, or a meter?

Well yes and no, I'm sure you would use a push fit connector which would be OK ish

 

[jonnyswamp]

Always thought it was a min of a meter, although if I use plastic (new build) I don't have plastic on show, will use copper up into ceiling void

 

[jaydebruyne]

Always thought it was a min of a meter, although if I use plastic (new build) I don't have plastic on show, will use copper up into ceiling void

That's what a couple of colleagues thought but I've researched the manuals and the lengths before plastic differ

 

[julesverne]

I believe speedfit is a mtr from boiler but i suppose it could vary manufacture depending on what they deem safe.

 

[Best]

Personally, the minimum distance I would want plastic on my heating installs is in the next door neighbours. :smile:
Here is a photo I took. The 22mm barrier pipe in the photo degraded when a modern HE oil combi control stat failed. The one with the olive on it was on another job (new build) that the idiots had piped to oil boiler. I think radiated heat is also a risk.

 

[jaydebruyne]

Personally, the minimum distance I would want plastic on my heating installs is in the next door neighbours. :smile:
Here is a photo I took. The 22mm barrier pipe in the photo degraded when a modern HE oil combi control stat failed. The one with the olive on it was on another job (new build) that the idiots had piped to oil boiler. I think radiated heat is also a risk.
View attachment 28278

Bloomin' 'eck!! At least they used inserts lol

 

[cdodds2004]

I hate plastic. replaced a plastic elbow off a thermal store last week the o ring was basically just dust!

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

Copper is Proper

 

[jonnyswamp]

Completely agree with you all that copper is better
But what do you use on a new build with the joists and flooring already down, does anyone refuse to use plastic and decline the job

 

[jaydebruyne]

Completely agree with you all that copper is better
But what do you use on a new build with the joists and flooring already down, does anyone refuse to use plastic and decline the job

I did a boiler swap a few weeks back where it was plastic until about a foot below the boiler. Plastic disappeared under the floor. All I could do was cut the plastic back as far as the floor and connect it to copper from there ... all in all I think it was just under a meter of copper. What else can you do other than start ripping up carpet, boards etc

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Completely agree with you all that copper is better
But what do you use on a new build with the joists and flooring already down, does anyone refuse to use plastic and decline the job

Take a brick out and slide from outside that's how I do it

 

[Best]

Take a brick out and slide from outside that's how I do it

That's the way I would do it, - or if it is going to be plastered outside walls, then just in line with joist holes, accurate slightly oversized holes drilled through cavity wall for pipes, plus maybe a bit of sleeving to protect the copper while you slide it in.
This talk of copper being impossible to install through joists is usually wrong

 

[Best]

Like this all in copper, -

 

[markfxy]

why bother with copper when you can use uponor q&e?

 

[mfgs]

Take a brick out and slide from outside that's how I do it

Im sure the builders would be delighted with that. Plastic has its uses, I do a lot of new build work and use plastic all the time. The job would take loads longer using copper and I would make less money because of it.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Im sure the builders would be delighted with that. Plastic has its uses, I do a lot of new build work and use plastic all the time. The job would take loads longer using copper and I would make less money because of it.

Builders don't mind it tbh even easier if they know you want a brick out had a few leave a few bricks out before now

and you don't make money in new build anyway if all they want is plastic