Hot Water and Heating Linked???

[ken long]

Hi,

This is my first post. Thanks to the admin and creators for providing such a useful community forum for all things plumbing.

I have little (read NO) experience in plumbing other than the pain of paying cowboy plumbers to fix trivial matters. That's not to say all plumbers are cowboys - my last plumber was amazing actually and charged me very little for what was a very easy job (FOR HIM!!!).

Anyway, back on topic.

My family and I recently moved into a new property. It has gas central heating and this is controlled by a boiler (?) The boiler controls are quite easy to work out: ON ONCE, TWICE, CONTINUALLY, or OFF. There are also timer settings for both Morning and Night.

The problem I have is that there are two sliders for the above options. I would assume one is for the Hot Water and one is for the Gas Central Heating but they both have the same label on them which says GAS AND HOT WATER. But these labels have been stuck on and underneath each label is written GAS, for one of the sliders and HOT WATER for the other. I have tried different combinations but I can't seem to just get the Hot Water on WITHOUT also switiching on the4 GAS Central Heating. Are they linked? Am I doing something wrong? Its the middle of August and the central heating is on!

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Kind regards,

ken

 

[doitmyself]

Am I right in assuming that as its a combi boiler, we should be getting hot water "on demand".

The Potterton Suprima is NOT a combi boiler. So I don't know how you are getting your hot water if it's not from the cylinder.

I'll be looking to get a plumber in asap.

That's the best thing you can do.

It would be worthwile if you traced the pipes from the hot taps in the property and found what they are connected to. That will be the source of your hot water.

 

[REDSAW]

its just one of those jobs that you really have to be there to believe.
the cylinder looks very sus' like it leaks or split etc then someone has drained it shut of water supply to cover up the work needed.
i bet a quid if the gatevalve above the cylinder is shut of. and why the ballovalve bottom left of hwc is locked of.

 

[hamish72]

Just for info the marking on those yellow handles is just to indicate they can be used on water oil or gas

 

[ken long]

Damn. This is crazy. I wouldn't know how to follow the pipes. Can't see them as they go back into the wall.

Anyone know a good plumber in North London?

ken

British Gas have plumbers right? Are they usually good but expensive?

Anyway, what really makes you think the cylinder is capped? I knock on it and it sounds full to me. Pipes comin out of it are hot.

 

[REDSAW]

Damn. This is crazy. I wouldn't know how to follow the pipes. Can't see them as they go back into the wall.

Anyone know a good plumber in North London?

ken

British Gas have plumbers right? Are they usually good but expensive?

Anyway, what really makes you think the cylinder is capped? I knock on it and it sounds full to me. Pipes comin out of it are hot.

youre telling me the cylinder is full?

 

[ken long]

Well, where else is the hot water coming from??? I just don't get it. This is some archaic **** to say the least. The suprima is only about 3 years old or something.

 

[stevetheplumber]

where in north london ken im in islington moday morning

 

[ken long]

Hey Steve. I'm on Green Lanes at Clissold Park level.

 

[REDSAW]

Well, where else is the hot water coming from??? I just don't get it. This is some archaic **** to say the least. The suprima is only about 3 years old or something.

you say the pipes go into the wall, whats behind the wall?.
i have seen a neighbour supplied by free heating before.

 

[ken long]

Really not sure where they go Red. I had a look in the loft but couldn't see anythign there other than a defunct cast iron water tank and my current water tank. But I doubt its coming from the neighbour's. But I just don't know.

ken

What we looking at here Steve? Dollar-wise? Is there a personal message system on the forum?

 

[doitmyself]

British Gas have plumbers right? Are they usually good

That's debatable.

but expensive?

Definitely. And they have a reputation for trying to persuade you to have a new boiler, or a powerflush, when it's not needed.

Anyway, what really makes you think the cylinder is capped? I knock on it and it sounds full to me. Pipes comin out of it are hot.

Are you talking about the two pipes in the side of the cylinder or the one coming out of the top?

The two in the side are connected together in the tank by a large coil of copper tube. The water from the boiler passes through this and heats up the water in the cylinder. Cold water enters the cylinder at the bottom from the cold water tank in the roof. When you turn a hot tap on, the pressure of the cold water forces the hot water through the pipe coming out of the top of the tank.

As you have a great big hole in the top of the tank where the immersion heater should be, water will pour out of this all the time!

Get a long stick and dip the cylinder through the immersion hole and see how high the water mark comes!!

 

[ken long]

As you have a great big hole in the top of the tank where the immersion heater should be, water will pour out of this all the time!

Get a long stick and dip the cylinder through the immersion hole and see how high the water mark comes!!

I see. Except the hole is not a hole. The HW cylinder is sealed. Can't see any other hole there may be.

 

[Plouasne]

Third photo down, that open "boss" just to the left of the elbow coming off the top of the cylinder, that looks very much a place where an immersion heater should be fitted, are you saying that there is no opening there, and that the top of the actual cylinder is still in place under the "boss" ??

 

[ken long]

That's what i'm saying.

 

[ken long]

Hi,

Well, I finally found a plumber to come round and have a look at my system. Very nice guy, works in construction installation.

It turns out it is a very botched DIY job.

He said he had no idea what was going on but figured it out. The top valve of the cylinder does nothing. The bottom valve feeds the bedrooms. He said the other heaters (bathroom and living room) will always be on if the boiler is on because of the way it is set up.

As for the valves - THERE ARE NONE! He was completely shocked by this and expressed concern for the cylinder - if it overheats, it could explode. The only safety mechanism is the boiler lockout which he has explained is due to the system overheating and switching off the boiler. He explained why it was overheating but I'm a little hazy on the reasons. He also said the compressor (expander???) the big red thing next to the pump is much too big for a flat this size. (I'm paraphrasing as much of this stuffgoes over my head).

I'm wondering how reliable it is to trust the hot water boiler to ensure the cylinder doesn't overheat(?)

I asked him how much it would cost to replace the system and he quoted 3.5K. Which would include labour, the parts, a new boiler (Valliant?), disconnecting the tank in the loft and connecting to the mains, installing thermostat controls in each room as well as removing and disposing the cylinder and of course, flushing the system and installing these magnet things that get rid of the iron oxide from within the heaters (??)

Is this a fair quote? It seems like there will be a lot of work involved but its a very big sum of money for my family. Though not doing anything would probably end up more expensive in the long run (what with the constant heating) as well as being worried about the safety of my family and the damage to our flat.

Any advice or things to think about?

Thanks again.

And if he's a member or reads this forum, I just wanted to express complete satisfaction with the quality of service and reasonable fee.

as an aside, he told me to bleed all heaters. I did this after he left. I went to one heater and started turning the screw with the key and the thing flew off and a jet of water started screaming out of the heater at full pressure. The screw went flying and I was left with my thumb on the spout. I found the screw and tried to plug it but it went flying again. This time it fell in between the floorboards! Luckily (and I mean very very lucky) that was the one floorboard in that room that was removable. I managed to remove it and find the screw within so much dust and debris. Thank God. I could have flooded the place. Am I right in thinking I could have stopped the flow of water by turning the bolt at the bottom of the radiator?

ken

 

[REDSAW]

hahahahahahaha,
should have got it on camera.
turning the 'bolts of' would of stopped the preasure.

£3500 not bad but have to be thereto see 4 self / fair.
get a second quote to compare with?.
if you can afford it go for it, the peace of mind,safty and luxury afterwards is worth it.
vailants are good but pricy, ask for a cheeper as reliable one could save you £500.