Hot Water Copper Cylinder - Indirect ( DIY Job)

[alexrobot]

Hi Guys,


I want to replace my hot water cylinder with a bigger one and since I don't have too much space available it seems that I need a custom one.


I did try to find one with the right diameter & height at local big DIY Shops but couldn't...hence I asked my best friend Google about hot water cylinders...and after some research I found some manufactured online by Manley and Newark Copper Cylinder...both seem to have good prices...but since I'm not in the trade and only doing a diy job for me...never heard o them and cannot find too many reviews apart from their websites.


I have a gravity system so I need a Vented Hot Water Cylinder - Indirect...which is not that complicated but I noticed the warranty on most of these copper cylinders is either 2 or 5 years, predominantly with 2 years.


I remember my granddad telling me: Son, copper is for life ...always bet on copper and basic warranty was for 25 years min.


I am looking only at Grade 3 as I only need for max 10m but should I be worried about this? should I go for Grade 1?
I don't really want to replace this cylinder in 5 years time because the hard water done some damage...




Also I noticed that I can ask to install a shower outlet which I need for my shower pump...but it doesn't mention to be an Essex flange which I was recommended by someone; is this outlet still good?


The last thing is the insulation thickness which if it's below 50mm then it will not be according to British Standards ( Part L?) as I understand.
What I need is a cylinder with diameter ( including insulation) not bigger than 450mm; so I was thinking to buy either one with 350mm diameter and 50mm insulation or one with 400mm diameter and 25mm insulation.


Can the 25mm diameter be that bad and waste so much heat? The cupboard is part of my room and next to it is the bathroom so the heat will go in the house ...well, that's my thinking to get away with 25mm but what do you think?




My Questions will be:






1.Any good or bad experiences with online Manley Copper Cylinders & Newark ? any others recommended?
2.Should I worry about the Grade 3 ones with 2 years warranty?
3.Is the Shower outlet a good option? or better to ask for an Essex flange?
4.Is it that bad to go for 25mm insulation thickness?




I know that it might look silly to think that much about a hot water cylinder but prefer to do my homework before doing a job.


I appreciate any help, thx
Alex

 

[JCSPLUMBING]

The mains that comes into the cupboard can be changed to a full bore as they are more reliable to isolate your loft tank(s)

 

[alexrobot]

thank you for confirming JCS, yes it looks much easier to isolate with the full bore one than with the stopcock.

My Newark HWC arrives tomorrow...hopefully in good condition and no issues...just connect and ready to shower .

 

[alexrobot]

Got my Newark HWC today...they forgot to install the drain not good, now I have to do it from the pipe.

I'll give them 7 out of 10 for customer service...will update with the built quality once installed.
The other company was much more friendly but a bit late with pricing hence I went with Newark...price was aprox. the same on both.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Got my Newark HWC today...they forgot to install the drain not good, now I have to do it from the pipe.

I'll give them 7 out of 10 for customer service...will update with the built quality once installed.
The other company was much more friendly but a bit late with pricing hence I went with Newark...price was aprox. the same on both.

have you phoned them up and told them?

 

[alexrobot]

have you phoned them up and told them?

Yes, I did; the guy said sorry &...well, you can run it from the pipe; he said that there was no extra cost attached to it or maybe £2 but when I called first time he said that the drain will have a cost attached....more than £2.

Also the measurement was off for the return from the boiler...I only noticed tonight so probably will call on Monday ...will see as I already sorted it out.

Anyway if I will have another custom boiler to order in the future I will try somewhere else.

 

[alexrobot]

got another Q:

I've got all pipes in place fitting perfectly to the new cylinder and I thought that before connecting all up to do a mains clean flush...

I removed all radiators and gave them a good clean in the garden and now thinking to do as in Tom's video( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJWlPDxMnCM) in order to clean all the pipes.

1. Isolate CH pump and Boiler or just the pump?
2. As the HWC is not connected, add a pipe from flow to return to imitate the coil
2.5 do the same trick with the pipe for each section where a radiator was in place.
3. connect both pipes as in the video and then leave it until clean water comes out ( the water wasn't dirty when I flushed the system first time...so it shouldn't be that bad)

...then put all back add inhibitor...etc.

I know that not isolating the Boiler there is the risk of adding more sludge into the boiler rather than cleaning it but if the pipes where not that dirty when flushing the system is it worth it?

 

[Chalked]

How much sludge came out of your radiators?
If there wasn't much, don't waste your time.

 

[JCSPLUMBING]

Don't bother mate. The majority of sludge will be in your rads. If you wanted to be picky you could add a cleaner in your f&e header tank before you fill back up and let it circulate for about a week then drain down again. Then put your inhibitor in.

 

[alexrobot]

It wasn't too much sludge...just some black stuff for few seconds and then clear water on all rads; I used a rubber hammer just in case there was more and put the hose on both sides but there wasn't too much; F&E tank was fairly clean as well...just some dirt at the bottom, something like dust/sand from the loft more than sludge .

I cleaned both tanks anyway ( F&E and Main Cold Water one) and will add F1 to the F&E...then run the mains...hopefully all goes well.

Thank again guys.

 

[alexrobot]

Got my HWC up and running and the 3 bar shower pump! ...amazing pressure! quite a difference.

Had an issue at first, all rads were hot but there was no hot water for bathroom and kitchen so I've done some reading on the forum and did what someone suggested: add a hose pipe from main into venting pipe for the F & E tank until all the bubbles were gone and Voila --> Hot Water sorted.

Good Project! ...now will check it for few days and balance/bleed rads when/if needed and hopefully all Ok...well, the real test is Winter Time!

 

[JCSPLUMBING]

How long can you run the shower for? Tried timing it?

 

[alexrobot]

Haven't fully tested but it went for 15 minutes and still getting hot water...I'm really impressed; the pressure though really really good...and the Moonson pump is not that noisy as i thought it will be ( even @ 2 am ).

 

[JCSPLUMBING]

Glad it worked out for you mate

 

[Ch4 plumbing]

Well done alexrobot, sounds like you have finished a great job there.

You fancy popping over to my house and fitting me a shower pump??mthe missus has been moaning at me for ages to fit one:devil2: