Hot water cylinder replacement

[brian_mk]

I need to replace a leaking hot water cyclinder.
So far I've contacted about 4 plumbers but none have got back to me, so I'm considering tackling the job myself.



I have bought a drop in replacement cylinder with connections in the exact same positions.
I'm hoping to re-use the existing immersion heater as it has never actually been used.

My question is...

Will there be enough 'give' in the pipework to allow me to remove the old cylinder without cutting pipes?
As far as I can see, it means lifting the hot water outlet pipe up by about 1" to pull it out of the compression fitting to allow the cylinder to be slid to the right to remove the pipes to the coil. The horizontal 22mm section of pipe is about 20" long and the fittings are soldered.

The cold feed to the right has a conex conector at the top of the photo just below a gate valve.
You can't easily get to the elbow fitting at the bottom right of the cyclinder.
I'm hoping there will be enough give in the pipework to pull the cold feed pipe down and out of the compression fitting.

 

[chris watkins]

Of course you hold the Part G & L competency, as required by the Building Regulations & will insure that the work is fully complaint with both of these ??
(as this is a controlled service i.e. Boilers or cylinders)

 

[brian_mk]

Thanks, that's really helpful...

Of course you hold the Part G & L competency, as required by the Building Regulations & will insure that the work is fully complaint with both of these ??
(as this is a controlled service i.e. Boilers or cylinders)

If I could find someone qualified to do the job then I wouldn't have to worry about trying to do it myslef. What else am I supposed to do after trying 4 different plumbers? No one seems interested in doing the work.

 

[Mike Jackson]

If you do the work yourself you'll need a new immersion as I doubt it will comply with the safety requirements that are needed today.

Have you tried posting on the need a plumber section on here?

You'll also find that a lot of plumbers aren't interested in fitting materials that the customer has supplied themselves as they have no control of the quality of the materials supplied.

 

[chris watkins]

[DLMURL="http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/im-looking-plumber-gas-engineer/"]I'm looking for a Plumber or Gas Engineer[/DLMURL]
Have you tried posting your requirements & location on here ??
or the find a Plumber on the CIPHE web site.
It is a nice little job for Plumber but can cause you loads of grief if you do not know what you are doing.
Email them over the photo, some can be real aggro, this one is a nice one, if you know what you are doing.

 

[brian_mk]

I'm not totally incompetant when it comes to plumbing - my father was a professional plumber for over 50 years until he passed away this year. He taught me most of the basics and I have access to all his tools & equipment.

I just wanted some simple advice as to whether it would be better to cut the horizontal hot water outlet pipe and fit a compression joint or whether the pipe should have enough spring to simply lift it from the top fitting.

 

[Killy Bing]

I'm not totally incompetant when it comes to plumbing - my father was a professional plumber for over 50 years until he passed away this year. He taught me most of the basics and I have access to all his tools & equipment.

I just wanted some simple advice as to whether it would be better to cut the horizontal hot water outlet pipe and fit a compression joint or whether the pipe should have enough spring to simply lift it from the top fitting.

And that is what you find out, when you actually do it!!
it might do, might not

As you're clearly going to do it yourself.

Get up and clean both tanks out while it is drained
change the immersion for a new one.
If you intend on staying in that house check the age of the three port and pump and decide if you wish to update them while you have the opportunity.
strengthen the base where it has leaked.

have a number of a plumber ready incase things don't go to plan.

Good luck and let us know how it goes

 

[Howsie]

I would imagine that you would be able to do that without cutting anything, but if you do have to compression fittings will be fine. As stated, sort the base out and have the number of a plumber (that calls you back) just in case.

Good luck!

 

[Meady]

Where abouts are you located?

 

[erpkid]

The only problem you will have is that the new cylinder will have thicker insulation so you will have to shorten some of the pipework. If you are going to DIY get a stainless cylinder with welded unions. Less chance of damage when you tighten up the compressions fitting to the irons..as there aren't any.

 

[lame plumber]

first problem youll have is the doc wont work!!!1

 

[erpkid]

first problem youll have is the doc wont work!!!1

True :sweatdrop:

 

[Rickster123]

What an unhelpful bunch we are these days. Go for it! Ont touch the gate valve. Just drain the tank as well. There will be enough movement in the hot pipe, disconnect the compression coupling on the cold feed. Don't forget to drain the heating and add inhibitor. Treat yourself to a new immersion heater.

 

[lame plumber]

i had a call today fm a disgruntled diyer who had sheared off his cold feed gate valve on his cyl. At 5 30pm he didnt get why any of the plumbers he called werent interested in fitting a new one NOW!. his comment of I know what I am doing, having admitted he kept turning the siezed valve till it freewheeled !, he expected us all to be sat in our chairs waiting for his call, and when I said mondayt pm at the earliest he flipped, so down went my phone. sorry ap some members of the public horde just dont get it.

 

[Dotty]

Not only that but vented cylinders now fall under part G3 too!

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_AD_G_2010_V2.pdf

Vented hot water storage systems

3.12
Vented hot water storage systems should incorporate a vent pipe of an adequate size, but not less than 19mm internal diameter, connecting the top of the hot water storage vessel to a point open to the atmosphere above and over the level of the water in the cold water storage cistern.

3.13
In addition to the vent pipe referred to in 3.12 and any thermostat provided to control the temperature of the stored water to a desired temperature, vented hot water storage systems should incorporate either:
a. for all direct heat sources, a non-self-resetting energy cut-out to disconnect the supply of heat to the storage vessel in the event of the storage system overheating; and, for all indirect heat sources, an overheat cut-out to disconnect the supply of heat to the storage vessel in the event of the stored water overheating so that the temperature of the stored water does not exceed 100°C; or
b. an appropriate safety device, for example, a temperature relief valve or a combined temperature and pressure relief valve to safely discharge the water in the event of significant over heating.

3.14
Vent pipes should discharge over a cold water storage cistern conforming to BS 417-2:1987 Specification for galvanized low carbon steel cisterns, cistern lids, tanks and cylinders. Metric units; or BS 4213:2004 Cisterns for domestic use. Cold water storage and combined feed and expansion (thermoplastic) cisterns up to 500 litres. Specification; as appropriate.

3.15
The cold water storage cistern into which the vent pipe discharges should be supported on a flat, level, rigid platform which is capable of safely withstanding the weight of the cistern when filled with water to the rim and fully supporting the bottom of the cistern over the whole of its area. The platform should extend a minimum of 150mm in all directions beyond the edge of the maximum dimensions of the cistern.
Note: Where an existing metal cistern is replaced, or a plastic cistern is replaced by one with larger dimensions, the existing support should be upgraded, as necessary, with one in accordance with paragraph 3.15.

3.16
The cistern should be accessible for maintenance, cleaning and replacement.

 

[erpkid]

If this were CSI Plumbing the OP has fitted into a profile which we have seen many times before imho. However the OP has now been given enough good advice to sort the job. The schizoid character of this forum remains and should be celebrated.

 

[kay-jay]

Not only that but unvented cylinders now fall under part G3 too!

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_AD_G_2010_V2.pdf

Vented hot water storage systems
3.12
Vented
hot water storage systems
should incorporate a vent pipe of an adequate
size, but not less than 19mm internal diameter,
connecting the top of the hot water storage
vessel to a point open to the atmosphere above
and over the level of the water in the cold water
storage cistern.
3.13
In addition to the vent pipe referred to
in 3.12 and any thermostat provided to control
the temperature of the stored water to a desired
temperature, vented
hot water storage systems
should incorporate either:
a. for all direct heat sources, a non-self-resetting
energy cut-out to disconnect the supply of
heat to the storage vessel in the event of the
storage system overheating; and,
for all indirect heat sources, an overheat
cut-out to disconnect the supply of heat to
the storage vessel in the event of the stored
water overheating so that the temperature of
the stored water does not exceed 100°C; or
b. an appropriate safety device, for example,
a
temperature relief valve
or a
combined
temperature and pressure relief valve
to
safely discharge the water in the event of
significant over heating.
3.14
Vent pipes should discharge over a cold
water storage cistern conforming to BS 417-
2:1987
Specification for galvanized low carbon
steel cisterns, cistern lids, tanks and cylinders.
Metric units;
or BS 4213:2004
Cisterns for
domestic use. Cold water storage and combined
feed and expansion (thermoplastic) cisterns up to
500 litres. Specification;
as appropriate.
3.15
The cold water storage cistern into which
the vent pipe discharges should be supported
on a flat, level, rigid platform which is capable
of safely withstanding the weight of the cistern
when filled with water to the rim and fully
supporting the bottom of the cistern over the
whole of its area. The platform should extend a
minimum of 150mm in all directions beyond the
edge of the maximum dimensions of the cistern.
Note:
Where an existing metal cistern is
replaced, or a plastic cistern is replaced by one
with larger dimensions, the existing support
should be upgraded, as necessary, with one in
accordance with paragraph 3.15.
3.16
The cistern should be accessible for
maintenance, cleaning and replacement.

You mean vented.
As I understand it it is not mandatory that a g3 is held for vented installations but those without g3 have to notify as they cant self certify.

 

[Dotty]

You mean vented.
As I understand it it is not mandatory that a g3 is held for vented installations but those without g3 have to notify as they cant self certify.

You're quite right, I meant vented........

It won't be long before vented cylinders have to be notified, mark my words!

 

[Dotty]

If this were CSI Plumbing the OP has fitted into a profile which we have seen many times before imho. However the OP has now been given enough good advice to sort the job. The schizoid character of this forum remains and should be celebrated.

Meaning what precisely?

 

[tamz]

You mean vented.
As I understand it it is not mandatory that a g3 is held for vented installations but those without g3 have to notify as they cant self certify.

Just shows how low standards in the trade have fallen when your average plumber can't be trusted to fit a cylinder properly mg_smile:

 

[erpkid]

Meaning what precisely?

Probably better in the arms. However we do swing from being incredibly helpful to less than at times - I know this is old ground. Hardly surprising as most here make their living from plumbing. Understandably we are occasionally in two minds with certain opening posts.

 

[Ermintrude]

Certification is a load of tosh, more eurocrat nonsense. It just pushes incompetence further under radar.

Idiots don't pay any attention and never get stopped. Gas safe is so badly policed g3 may aswell be gummy bears.

 

[mountainman]

Certification is a load of tosh, more eurocrat nonsense. It just pushes incompetence further under radar.

Idiots don't pay any attention and never get stopped. Gas safe is so badly policed g3 may aswell be gummy bears.

Fair comment!

 

[AWheating]

go for it, let us know how you get on.

 

[stevetheplumber]

What an unhelpful bunch we are these days. Go for it! Ont touch the gate valve. Just drain the tank as well. There will be enough movement in the hot pipe, disconnect the compression coupling on the cold feed. Don't forget to drain the heating and add inhibitor. Treat yourself to a new immersion heater.

i agree app which is why i rarely post on here now days everyone want to quote various rules and regs and taking the pee out of anyone who wants to have a go