Hot water cylinder replacement

[brian_mk]

I need to replace a leaking hot water cyclinder.
So far I've contacted about 4 plumbers but none have got back to me, so I'm considering tackling the job myself.



I have bought a drop in replacement cylinder with connections in the exact same positions.
I'm hoping to re-use the existing immersion heater as it has never actually been used.

My question is...

Will there be enough 'give' in the pipework to allow me to remove the old cylinder without cutting pipes?
As far as I can see, it means lifting the hot water outlet pipe up by about 1" to pull it out of the compression fitting to allow the cylinder to be slid to the right to remove the pipes to the coil. The horizontal 22mm section of pipe is about 20" long and the fittings are soldered.

The cold feed to the right has a conex conector at the top of the photo just below a gate valve.
You can't easily get to the elbow fitting at the bottom right of the cyclinder.
I'm hoping there will be enough give in the pipework to pull the cold feed pipe down and out of the compression fitting.

 

[stevetheplumber]

i would just drain everything and while its out change the gate valve for a lever type valve
the drain of might not work so drain as much as you can take the top connector out put the hose in and syphon the water out if your hose doesnt fit through the hole use a couple of feet of 15mm tube and connect the hose to that
disconnect the cold feed at the valve and the two primary connections then you can slide the cylinder out or spin it to get at the bottom connection
as said i would get a new imersion as much as anything it saves you struggling to get the old one out
if you realy want to reuse it loosen it before you drain system as the water will hold the cylinder more rigid

 

[brian_mk]

i had a call today fm a disgruntled diyer who had sheared off his cold feed gate valve on his cyl. At 5 30pm he didnt get why any of the plumbers he called werent interested in fitting a new one NOW!. his comment of I know what I am doing, having admitted he kept turning the siezed valve till it freewheeled !, he expected us all to be sat in our chairs waiting for his call, and when I said mondayt pm at the earliest he flipped, so down went my phone. sorry ap some members of the public horde just dont get it.

The gate valve is ok - I check them all once or twice a year to make sure they don't seize.
However, if I do the job myself, I will probably drain the cold tank just in case the valve doesn't close off completely.
The tank probably needs a clean out in any case.

 

[brian_mk]

The only problem you will have is that the new cylinder will have thicker insulation so you will have to shorten some of the pipework. If you are going to DIY get a stainless cylinder with welded unions. Less chance of damage when you tighten up the compressions fitting to the irons..as there aren't any.

Sorry, but that doesn't make any sense...

The dimensions for a standard 900mm x 450mm copper cylinder are measured WITHOUT the insulation. So even if the replacement cylinder had thicker insulation, the pipework would not have to be shortened as you suggest. In fact, the replacement copper cylinder I have already bought has the same foam thickness as the existing one.

 

[SimonG]

I love threads like this. Does anybody think for one minute that the op will come back and say that his ceiling came down as it all went pear shaped?

To the op, you have enough info to give it a go, and good luck, but, if it does go pear shaped 'who ya gonna call'

 

[Killy Bing]

Sorry, but that doesn't make any sense...

The dimensions for a standard 900mm x 450mm copper cylinder are measured WITHOUT the insulation. So even if the replacement cylinder had thicker insulation, the pipework would not have to be shortened as you suggest. In fact, the replacement copper cylinder I have already bought has the same foam thickness as the existing one.

Erp said that due to the side oft he cylinder touching the wall.
we don't know the age of the cylinder, we automaticly assume its rather old with little foam.
obviously its a more recent one.

and how do we know what thickness the foam is on your replacement?

it wasn't suggested, you're being advised you might have to do it.

he outlined a possible problem, be greatful

 

[brian_mk]

I love threads like this. Does anybody think for one minute that the op will come back and say that his ceiling came down as it all went pear shaped?

To the op, you have enough info to give it a go, and good luck, but, if it does go pear shaped 'who ya gonna call'

That's what worries me. I'd rather get someone else to do it, but good plumbers are like rocking horse poo.

 

[Killy Bing]

No swearing!

where are you based, plenty on this forum.

 

[SimonG]

That's what worries me. I'd rather get someone else to do it, but good plumbers are like rocking horse sh*t.

I know exactly where you are coming from. The number of times that people are surprised that you return a call or turn up on time to look at a job. Annoys me a little that people can't return calls, but that's a different thread. Can't get a recommendation from friends, relatives, colleagues or neighbours?

 

[tamz]

Erp said that due to the side oft he cylinder touching the wall.
we don't know the age of the cylinder, we automaticly assume its rather old with little foam.
obviously its a more recent one.

and how do we know what thickness the foam is on your replacement?

it wasn't suggested, you're being advised you might have to do it.

he outlined a possible problem, be greatful

Have you never had to take the saw to the insulation to get it in the space ?
It is easily shaved.

 

[Killy Bing]

Have you never had to take the saw to the insulation to get it in the space ?
It is easily shaved.

Of course but thats the only thing i can think of erp mentioning it.

 

[Dotty]

Brian, going by your name I reckon you're Milton Keynes way.

Apologies if your confidence has taken a knock. Wasn't intended.

Follow Steve's advice. I would use all new fittings when you dress the cylinder too.

But if you are getting a squeaky bum then you might want someone off here to do it for you.

post a thread in the 'I'm looking for a plumber / gas engineer' section of these forums remembering to include your location - [DLMURL="http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/im-looking-plumber-gas-engineer/"]I'm looking for a Plumber or Gas Engineer[/DLMURL]

 

[happyflyer]

For God sack first take out those stupid bearers under the cylinder and replace it with two pieces of heavy ply that cover the whole base, lets get the stresses right on the rolled bottom edge of the cylinder. Now the chances of getting a replacement cylinder where the connection are 100% spot on is remote, the new cylinder may look and appear to measure up ok, if the new one is out on one connection slightly it may well push the rest out. This guy needs to know this, if any connections are out pulling the pipe even 1/2" may cause him leaks he can't tighten up, and no amount of PTFE will stop it leaking, the DOC Drain off cock like someone has already said is destine to fail, I would change the 22 mm connex connector for a gate valve and you may have two them but what the hell. If things don't line up he will be into soldering, if he is in a hard water area like someone say he might well rip off a union, yet again we don't know where he lives and member might live around the corner and would no doubt have it out and filled up in 60 mins, you could charge half a day and be in the pub by 12. :sweatdrop:

 

[lame plumber]

funny Iwas taught to use bearers under a cyl to allow for air flow and prevent condensation etc so the base doesnt corrode out. different methods for all around the country. why else do unvented cyls have nice little legs on them

 

[happyflyer]

funny Iwas taught to use bearers under a cyl to allow for air flow and prevent condensation etc so the base doesnt corrode out. different methods for all around the country. why else do unvented cyls have nice little legs on them

Not for that reason lame, the bottom of the SS vessel is convex to take the pressure and it needs the legs to stop it rolling over like a doll in a budgies cage.

 

[lame plumber]

still I always use bearers under copper cyls as taught by blokes with grey hair and only use ply under cwsc as per the regs.

 

[SimonG]

The bottom line is that there's no magic to changing a cylinder, if it goes ok, the magic or craft comes when it goes pear shaped and you can sort it without breaking a sweat.

 

[happyflyer]

still I always use bearers under copper cyls as taught by blokes with grey hair and only use ply under cwsc as per the regs.

Lame Ply wasn't invented then that's the only reason they didn't use it, that practice was never used up North, always flat on the floor, I think it more like the spread on chipboard floors and if it ever got flooded the cylinder would be in the lounge downstairs. Hell of a bad practice you look at the edge under a copper cylinder and 2 bits of 3 x 2 puts a load on a very small area. I have a mega flow proper feet, no need for crap bits of off cuts, anyway it looks a mess too, looks like a joiner got involved.

 

[lame plumber]

Lame Ply wasn't invented then that's the only reason they didn't use it, that practice was never used up North, always flat on the floor, I think it more like the spread on chipboard floors and if it ever got flooded the cylinder would be in the lounge downstairs. Hell of a bad practice you look at the edge under a copper cylinder and 2 bits of 3 x 2 puts a load on a very small area. I have a mega flow proper feet, no need for crap bits of off cuts, anyway it looks a mess too, looks like a joiner got involved.

time you northeners started to pop back to college for some retraining, or is Mr Blower wrong when he says "it is important to make provision for air movement under the storage vessel by standing it on battens. Failure to do so will result in the formation of condensation, causing damage to the wooden or chipboard flooring" page 196 para 2 book one of Plumbing mechanical services as used by those taking their city and guilds. millions of plumbers cant be wrong

 

[happyflyer]

When did a million plumbers ever take their City & Guilds, training at B&Q on Sunday morning maybe, I suppose if its in a textbook somewhere lame it must be right,
or in a building regulation somewhere, hell I give in, you got me bang to rights, does it tell you how far apart the 3 x 2 should be

 

[SimonG]

How out three strips of 3 x 2 with ply on top with holes drilled in it for ventilation?

 

[happyflyer]

Now that would look much better Simon, but Simon when and where would this so called condensation form

 

[lame plumber]

to spread the weight evenly according to my old mates, and if you can have them at 90 degrees to the joists even better. well if there are over 100,000 gas safe guys out there there must be 10 fold more pumbers past and present and I hope to god your the only one shopping at B & Q on a Sunday, as Ray wont be happy and wheres your pride gone

 

[happyflyer]

1. I've recently tried to find if a regulation exists for bearings for standard hot water cylinders, our local building control say there's nowt and cylinder manufacturers say the same but I have a quality control fella in our office asking why I havn't put all sorts of board and bearing configurations under, any help would be gratefully received !
   
   
   
   Lame the above just got off a website, what dust ya make of this
   
   Tony

 

[happyflyer]

• Hi all
  I am a newbuild home owner with 4 years to run on my nhbc warranty however this does not cover my leaking hot water tank.I believe that this tank may have been fitted incorrectly and that this has been the cause of the leak.The tank (900x450 indirect cylinder)is supported on 2 pieces of wood 40mm x 25mm and 230mm apart which does not support the whole base of the tank.The tank is raised by 25mm.Is this correct as I have been told the whole base needs to be fully supported??Now fighting with builder to make good on the repair.
  Thanks in advance.
  
  
  Lame mmmmmmm another one for thalbum
  
  Read on!!!
  
  
  http://community.NoLinkingToThis/th...er-tank-causing-it-too-leak.77741/#post-77741​

 

[lame plumber]

cmon, have some pride, you go on the screwfixforum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!