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Hot water cylinder smart thermostat

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Discuss Hot water cylinder smart thermostat in the Bathroom Advice area at Plumbers Forums

Michael Groves

Michael Groves

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I’m looking for a Hot Water Cylinder Smart Thermostat. But I want to be able to monitor the tank temperature over time so I can see when the hot water is being drawn off and how quickly it recovers. So maybe recording the temperature every 5 minutes and saving this data.

Does such a thing exist?
 
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Them esi stats are a pain check your cylinder temp is correct eg hot water temp 60 - 65 Dc stored
 
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Michael Groves said:
No worries, I’ll ask him to review.
Thanks for heads up.
Click to expand...
More importantly Michael from what I can make out from your photo you have a Grundfos AutoAdapt Comfort 15-14BA PM secondary hot water circulator installed, & from what I can see, the sensor has been fitted to the return pipe not the flow out of the cylinder so the pump can't learn your usage pattens & maybe running all the time. Along with the fact that there is no insulation fitted to the pipework this will be wasting lots of energy (gas) & I believe that was why you originally posted.
Please check it out & let us know.

PS. it is a requirement under the Building Regs that the hot (flow & return) pipes are insulated.
 
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chris watkins said:
More importantly Michael from what I can make out from your photo you have a Grundfos AutoAdapt Comfort 15-14BA PM secondary hot water circulator installed, & from what I can see, the sensor has been fitted to the return pipe not the flow out of the cylinder so the pump can't learn your usage pattens & maybe running all the time. Along with the fact that there is no insulation fitted to the pipework this will be wasting lots of energy (gas) & I believe that was why you originally posted.
Please check it out & let us know.

PS. it is a requirement under the Building Regs that the hot (flow & return) pipes are insulated.
Click to expand...
You have a keen eye sir, unfortunately I can’t blame plumber for Grundfos sensor. Original Grundfos did not have sensor. It only lasted 6 months and failed. It was replaced under warranty, but they no longer made the basic model so sent one with sensor. I swapped it as it was straight forward. It’s still runs 24/7, when I did the maths, the extra money for the more expensive pump had a pay back of 10 years. That’s why I went for cheaper one initially. However, when I got top pump for no extra money I reviewed again. I spoke with Grundfos in case I was missing anything, but we came to same conclusion. Because usage is sporadic autoadapt won’t work. So it’s left running 24/7. The sensor is just clipped out the way.

All pipe runs have been insulated with the fattest pipe insulation I could get. The only pipe not insulated are what you can see. It’s been left off so I can paint first. But, I wish plumber had used spacers so I could get thicker insulation on.

On that note, I’ve been meaning to post this question for ages, there is a noticeable temperature drop the further you get away from the cylinder. Assuming we are only talking about secondary return, there is only 2M of uninsulated pipe on the whole run. I fully expect a drop, but it just seems too much. Everything is Hep2o other than what you see.
What else can I do?
 
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The flow should be 60 - 65 & the return at the cylinder no less than 50. However good the insulation you will still have standing losses of the cylinder & the pipework.
You may wish to speak to the manufacturers of the pipe as I believe the warrantee will be void if you use it in a secondary circulation circuit especially one that runs continually.
PS. you should of specifier clip spacers to suit the lagging :oops:
Good luck Michael
 
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chris watkins said:
The flow should be 60 - 65 & the return at the cylinder no less than 50. However good the insulation you will still have standing losses of the cylinder & the pipework.
You may wish to speak to the manufacturers of the pipe as I believe the warrantee will be void if you use it in a secondary circulation circuit especially one that runs continually.
PS. you should of specifier clip spacers to suit the lagging :oops:
Good luck Michael
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I’ll check temp when I’m next there. Just to be clear, are you saying customer should have asked for spacers?
 
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Riley said:
Secondary I don’t believe can be plastic
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There was a lot of debate about plastic, I recall the Hep2o spec advises it has not been tested on secondary. However, Hep2o technical advised it had been tested above the pressure required for secondary return so it should be okay, but as it just has not been tested they can’t warrant it will be okay. Ultimately it’s up to you. I was given the scenario, and told it was up to me as customer to make final decision. I agreed to go with Hep2o as I believed the performance and spec supported this. The only caveat was it’s just not been tested.
 
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chris watkins said:
Yes, most standard plastic pipe clips will just about allow 13mm wall thickness insulation to be fitted around the pipe if you wanted the insulation to be thicker then you needed to spec it or let then know that was your intension.
Click to expand...
Fair enough, to be honest I’d not considered lagging until the install was finished. Then the day we tested I was amazed at the temperature drop so got it lagged to death.
 
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not rated for secondary returns

Push-Fit Hep2O: Your plumbing FAQs answered - Part 1

Can I use Hep2O in a continuously operated re-circulating system?
No. Continuously operated re-circulating systems (Secondary Hot Water Circulation/Ring main installations) are very different from conventional hot water supply and central heating systems found in domestic properties, for which Hep2O products have been tested.
 
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"Continuously operated re-circulating systems are very different from conventional hot water supply and central heating systems found in domestic properties, for which our products have been tested to, under either BS 7291 2010 Class S or WRAS approval standards, and for this reason Hep2O products must NOT be used on any continuously operated re-circulating systems as they are not approved under the current version of these standards."

Page 59 Installation Guide.
You would have thought that the technical department would have followed their own published advice wouldn't you?
 
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Hep Technical pointed out it had not been tested, so they could not guarantee it would work. But also pointed out as it had not been tested they could not say that it would not work. If the customer chooses to use it, it is at their own risk.
What would be good if they could actually test it and say either way for sure.
 
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They have tested it and it split

Any leaks on your hot water sys?
 
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