How Did You Expand Your Business?

[cr0ft]

Hi all,

I haven't been on for a while as work has been manic to be honest. I'm at the stage where I'm looking to take someone on to expand my business and the question is, which way to go about doing it?

At present like many people my business is run from home and I want to keep doing that for as long as possible to keep my outgoings down. I currently have a labourer working with me (my uncle) to speed up the larger jobs like bathrooms.

The 2 options I'm looking at are either: -

1.) Employ someone to help me with my book-keeping and to deliver flyers (these are what generate most of our work).
2.) Take on a multi-skilled bathroom fitter/plumber.

My experiences with subcontracting work out have never been good to be honest and I'm not particularly keen to go down that route. I want to offer any employee a small profit share in my business to help motivate them to keep my business first in their mind

I would be particularly interested to hear from other companies that started off as one-man bands and started to grow as work picked up. It's a scary time for me to be honest, it's nice being busy but I'm starting to lose larger jobs now to the competition, there's only so long people are willing to wait before they will go elsewhere. Equally, the idea of employing someone I don't know is quite scary as they could really mess up my business if I get a bad egg.

Any advice appreciated really!

 

[PlumbersMate]

Maybe interview someone off here

 

[REDSAW]

if only you were nearer to me....

how about team up with someone who is just starting on their own and let him work on his own book.
get a couple and eventually you will know who to employ and expand at the same time. good thing is they carry there own p.l.

 

[Destroyer2813]

I"ve started to getting rally busy with lack of time for paperwork so have my neighbours daughter doing my paperwork for me does four ours a week, also in the process of building a office in the back of my garage to keep all paperwork out the house to stop my boy drawing on it. Know what you mean about employing im fortunate i got a good mate who helps me out when i need him and vice versa

 

[Destroyer2813]

What you getting more work of plumbing or wiring

 

[cr0ft]

Hi mate. My work is mainly re-wires, bathroom and kitchen installations at the moment. Very little of the work I'm getting is small jobs just now. For the last 4 months or so my waiting list has been growing longer and longer and we are up to 10 weeks now.

I'm very reluctant to employ any subcontractors, from experience they just don't care about my business (understandable, they have their own). A recent example, a kitchen fitter who dropped a worktop lost us a good few days of time on a kitchen installation while we waited for new worktops to come in (this was despite me offering my labourer to help him carry them, he refused). He then grumbled about me insisting he pay for the worktop, culminating in threatening to burn our house down. We had to get the police involved.

In an ideal world I think I would employ a plumber/bathroom fitter on a part time basis initially. On the days they were working I would get my admin up to date and be out promoting my business and securing new work/working on re-wires etc. It's pretty scary though because this would mean buying a 2nd van and putting a lot of trust in someone new really.

 

[tamz]

This can be a big step to take and a worrying time.
I was probably in a different situation as i had a very large network of other tradesmen who i had either worked with or i new who they worked with.
Generally, just like a customer finding a tradesman, word of mouth is the best way. How many other businesses do you know personally?
Ask them if they know anyone good. Even if they are your competitors you will find they will tell you who they know, and their strengths and weaknesses.
Ads in job centres will generally produce the dross. Anyone who is any good won't be idle for long.
Whoever you start do it on a trail basis. You will know within a few hours of working with them what they are like.

This is a step most one man bands should look to achieving and why they should consider taking proper apprentices straight from school as they used to.
You pay them low wages to begin with and train them to your way of thinking and working while you build your business. When times are slack you have only £100/wk or so to worry about. They will develop as your business grows and if all goes to plan you have a fully trained (to your way and standards) member of staff who will be loyal (for a while anyway)

 

[Destroyer2813]

Word of mouth is key possibly ask around merchants see if they know of anybody who is short of work you could give a trial too see how your relationship works

 

[cr0ft]

Cheers Tamz. Do you find your apprentices are loyal though? That's my worry. When I was down in Hampshire the apprentices I had from the local college made me much less efficient than I was on my own to be honest. I know there's an investment to be put in in terms of training but the standard of school leavers wasn't particularly high.

Because I've moved up here I don't have a huge network of tradesmen I know/trust to be honest, which is why I qualified as a sparky before I moved. Agree totally about the Job Centre. My wife works in the NHS and the 'apprentices' they've taken on from there have all been, without fail, complete ****.

 

[southcoastboile]

You could put an add on gumtree for free, state what is required to work for you in the add so you wont get any time wasters and then give them a day or two trial to see what they are like?

 

[TBServices]

Sounds like a GSR plumber would benefit your business. You could cover a lot of bases with that.

Where are you based?


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[cr0ft]

Based in Lincoln. Actually didn't think about that TB. I'm not GSR myself so how would it work if I employed a gas fitter from a legal perspective? My company is a Limited company so it would be employing them not myself. Is that possible to do legally?

 

[TBServices]

Not sure about the legal ramifications, I'm sure you don't need to be Gas Safe to run a registered company, just your engineers.

If you had a GSR you could install your own kitchen gas appliances, move pipe work etc as necessary, and you'd also have other streams of revenue. I think being a one-stop shop can be appealing to many.

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[cr0ft]

How much of your work would you say is gas work? Say as a percentage of the hours you work? I'd be interested to know if it's a large percentage of your work. Do you do bathrooms etc as well for instance? At the moment we offer full-scope electrical and plumbing/bathrooms/kitchens and I have a gas-fitter who I subcontract to but he's not 100% reliable tbh.

 

[TBServices]

How much of your work would you say is gas work? Say as a percentage of the hours you work? I'd be interested to know if it's a large percentage of your work. Do you do bathrooms etc as well for instance? At the moment we offer full-scope electrical and plumbing/bathrooms/kitchens and I have a gas-fitter who I subcontract to but he's not 100% reliable tbh.

It's hard to say cos it fluctuates, and bathrooms obviously take longer than boilers etc, also, i don't advertise and i think a lot of my customers don't realise i'm GSR at first (my own fault, don't push it enough). A good proportion of my work is gas, a fair chunk of which is kitchen appliances for joiners.

Beauty of gas is, if you get a good installer who can do boilers for you, and you can get the work, it's fast easy money. Not like towing your bag off on bathrooms like I am this week.


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[tamz]

Cheers Tamz. Do you find your apprentices are loyal though? That's my worry. When I was down in Hampshire the apprentices I had from the local college made me much less efficient than I was on my own to be honest. I know there's an investment to be put in in terms of training but the standard of school leavers wasn't particularly high.

Because I've moved up here I don't have a huge network of tradesmen I know/trust to be honest, which is why I qualified as a sparky before I moved. Agree totally about the Job Centre. My wife works in the NHS and the 'apprentices' they've taken on from there have all been, without fail, complete ****.

Every apprentice i have had has been 100% loyal (even the numpty who fkd it for himself and ended up in jail for dealing drugs would have done anything for me) but i have always picked sons of people i knew and knew the families off so i had an idea of their background. This in itself is no guarantee of getting a good one but there is always the threat of their parents. I couldn't have cared less what qualifications they left school with as long as they could read, write and count but a good attendance record was a must. That showed they could be bothered to get out of bed in the morning (even if they were forced). I also started them on a trial basis and did drop 2 in their first weeks. It is easy to tell if they are the type of person you want associated with you or are keen to learn.

I took them all as 16 year olds on proper indentured apprenticeships paying SNIJIB rates (pensions too) and yes they were full of nonsense at times but were no different to what i or anyone else was like at that age. You just need to set out the rules from day 1 and stick to them. Be fair with them and they will go that extra bit for you. Train them in your methods of working and to your standards and they will reward you. Yes there are days you will scream and shout at them and make them rip the lot out and start again which costs you money but that shouldn't happen too often. A bit of bribery, an extra £20 or so also works wonders when you need them to pull the stops out.
They all turned into very good tradesmen and worked for me for a good few years after their time was out but they will eventually move on. I still see all but one who has moved away and they still have a lot of respect for me as i have for them.
I always thought of it as a good investment in my business which it was. As one got his time out i started another so always had a continual flow. This is the 1st time i have ever been without one. My current "boy" is 2 years out his time.
Most one man bands are quite short sighted and think if they make 500 or 5000 a week that is great where if they looked to the future they may realise that for a few quid a week investment they will gain a valuable asset. Rates of pay are lower for apprentices in Scotland which makes the initial investment easier. 1st year is currently £3.28/hr up here rising to £4.91 in 2nd year.

You are in a different situation than this tho where you need someone who can do the job now. If you don't have much of a network of tradesmen you may have to take a chance. Ask in your merchants. They know most guys and what they are up to.
There are a lot of good guys out there. The hard part is finding one who is going to be up to your expectations. I'd probably go for someone a bit older , again a bit of a chance but the odds of a decent one are greater.

Loyalty with tradesmen, especially good ones is usually a money thing. They may have no aspirations at all of ever going SE but they know their worth. So long as they think they are being paid a decent rate for what they are doing (profit share or not) they will be loyal enough but always be aware if a better offer comes in they will be off and you will be left holding their weeks lie time and doing 18hr shifts to cover it. Never be held to ransom tho.
I wouldn't even consider bringing in anyone who is currently doing their own thing. Their main loyalty is to themselves and will never be to you.

I have only ever had 1 subbie work for me. He was a guy in his 60's who was just passing his time until he retired. He was very good and was prepared to work on an as and when basis.

Your real worries start when you have 5+

If you employ someone with gas quals you can register the company with gas safe.

Good to hear you are doing well Keiran.

 

[tamz]

Btw. If you do start someone, make sure their contract is no longer than 2 years. If you miss that one you may one day be left with a big redundancy payout to find at the time you can least afford it.
Bought that T shirt to a big tune :lol:

 

[REDSAW]

i recon tamz is using 3 fingers? eh!

 

[tamz]

i recon tamz is using 3 fingers? eh!

Only if i grease them :lol:

 

[Nostrum]

How about looking into a temp to perm position. Employment laws can really mess you up if you take someone on in good will and they turn out to be useless, you need to find a good reason to get rid without risk of them trying to no win no fee you.

3 months sub contract with the view of permanent employment afterwards would be my way of doing it.If they mess up they can be gone instantly.

Youll have to be able to judge their character on the interviews though, no matter what they have on paper, it's their attitude that makes the difference.

Hope it works out for you, good to hear of someone doing well in these tough times.

 

[southcoastboile]

Not sure about the legal ramifications, I'm sure you don't need to be Gas Safe to run a registered company, just your engineers.

If you had a GSR you could install your own kitchen gas appliances, move pipe work etc as necessary, and you'd also have other streams of revenue. I think being a one-stop shop can be appealing to many.

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I had to find out about this the other day, if you are a company wanting to take on gas safe engineers you need to pay a registration fee which will then give your company its own gas safe registration number allowing to use a gas safe engineer named on that new company reg number. If you want to take on additional engineers it is £60 a go

 

[Koogatubac]

Hey guys, dave just granted me plumbers arms

Regarding this:

Ive been self employed for a month now and im getting loads of servicing and boiler repairs (which i dont like, however its work) but no installs (which i love doing)

A lad who i went to college with rang me up the other day and said his business is booming! And wants to take me on. Im a gas safe plumber whos only got boilers. Hes willing to get me on HETAS, other appliances, get my OFTEC and everything to get me, he sees hes going to make alot of money off me and also give me my own apprentice.

Just goes to show if you got the work then it sure is a risk to take someone on, however if it pays off and work stays coming in the director can make alot of money aswell as less stress surely

 

[mountainman]

Employees=(Less Stress+More Profit)

Good in theory!

Well done in joining the Arms tho

 

[Koogatubac]

Need more of the true plumbers being employed! Theres too many of the fast track 'plumbers' coming up.

Cheers mountainman

 

[Nat]

Croft it sounds like you are thinking an apprentice won't work for you bit its worth a second thought in my opinion. I am in a similar situation to you and have decided to take on an apprentice. The government are offering a wage incentive if you employ them for at least 6 months they will actually give you a lump sum of cash that almost covers all of their wages! I think you get some of the money after 6 weeks and the rest after 6 months. Well worth it in my opinion.